Muslim Demographics

[Reaver]

I don't know why I even bother, you and everyone like you are all the same. Hypocritical retard.

I'm not really trying to defend anyone here but this is ad hominen, he made the point that the new testament doesn't tell Christians to go out and fight non-believers, you responded by providing some quotes from the new testament, he responded by pointing out that they are in fact not only not violent, but not even directed at non-believers, then you responded by attacking the person instead of the point. Also, I know that sentence is one massive run-on, I've gotta go!

Also, before I get dragged into anything else, I said I'm not agreeing with anyone, just pointing out what it seems like

[gran guerrero]

I'm not really trying to defend anyone here but this is ad hominen, he made the point that the new testament doesn't tell Christians to go out and fight non-believers, you responded by providing some quotes from the new testament, he responded by pointing out that they are in fact not only not violent, but not even directed at non-believers, then you responded by attacking the person instead of the point. Also, I know that sentence is one massive run-on, I've gotta go!

Also, before I get dragged into anything else, I said I'm not agreeing with anyone, just pointing out what it seems like

he makes some half-assed interpretation of some fictional war in heaven even though I interpreted it as something here on earth, in reality

oh wait thats just interpretations (what really? we can interpret it anyway we want, violently or peacefullly or hell even fictionally?)

no wonder ppl like this shit. Its whatever you want it to be

[404 Not Found]

Originally Posted by Vatican Assassin Tagmor is completely owning you with the facts, leaving this "you and everyone like you" generalization as your only out, sry gran but Tag has a point and you got nothing.

So are facts only things that can be derrived from what one reads or by the actual actions one has commited? Maybe the New Testicle does not preach killing those that don't believe; but is not this what the Spanish Inquisition did?

Look at Kill Or Convert, Brought To You By the Pentagon:

A fundamentalist Christian ministry called Operation Straight Up, or OSU. Headed by former kickboxer Jonathan Spinks, OSU is an official member of the Defense Department's "America Supports You" program. The group has staged a number of Christian-themed shows at military bases, featuring athletes, strongmen and actor-turned-evangelist Stephen Baldwin. But thanks in part to the support of the Pentagon, Operation Straight Up has now begun focusing on Iraq, where, according to its website (on pages taken down last week), it planned an entertainment tour called the "Military Crusade."

Apparently the wonks at the Pentagon forgot that Muslims tend to bristle at the word "crusade" and thought that what the Iraq war lacked was a dose of end-times theology.

In the end, the Defense Department realized the folly of participating in any Operation Straight Up crusade. But the episode is just another example of increasingly disturbing, and indeed unconstitutional, relationships being forged between the U.S. military and private evangelical groups.

Take, for instance, the recent scandal involving Christian Embassy, a group whose expressed purpose is to proselytize to military personnel, diplomats, Capitol Hill staffers and political appointees. In a shocking breach of security, Defense Department officials allowed a Christian Embassy film crew to roam the corridors of the Pentagon unescorted while making a promotional video featuring high-ranking officers and political appointees. (Christian Embassy, which holds prayer meetings weekly at the Pentagon, is so entrenched that Air Force Maj. Gen. John J. Catton Jr. said he'd assumed the organization was a "quasi-federal entity.")

The Pentagon's inspector general recently released a report recommending unspecified "corrective action" for those officers who appeared in the video for violating Defense Department regulations. But, in a telling gesture, the report avoided any discussion of how allowing an evangelical group to function within the Defense Department is an obvious violation of the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment.

[PaulOakenfold]

gran give me your thoughts in my thread

[PaulOakenfold]

404, also, what do you think. give me those brains in my thread!

[Vatican Assassin]

I admit that the video gave me a feeling that it may have been made by paranoid Christians urging everyone -- um, everyone who is white -- to start having babies asap. I, for one, think over-population is a huge problem and will probably only have 2.1 children. But the point of the video, which I talked about in my opening post, is that cultures that don't have education and policies in place on the subject of over-population will inevitably grow at a much faster rate after 2 or more generations. That's it.

I didn't bring up the bible, or terrorism, just the contrast between Western and Muslim population trends. This is, of course, up to debate on whether the numbers are legitimate or useful in anyway, but it certainly is NOT the place of staff to decide to trash my thread and attach a racist title to it because they are bored, arrogant and not funny.

edit 1: Hey gran! Guess what! There is a difference between the old and new testament! Check it out! One is written by the Hebrews, and the other was written a thousand years later by those who would become Christians! Guess which one Tagmor was referencing! I'll give you a hint: it's not the one you keep talking about!

edit 2: 404: This is the key sentence which Tagmor stated that makes what you are saying -- though true -- not really helpful to what sort of facts I was talking about:

"No where does it advocate violence towards non-believers.
True, history has many examples of people committing violent atrocities under the guise of Christianity, but they were clearly not following its laws.
In comparison, most of those atrocities would be acceptable, and even praised under the laws of Islam."

Crusades, inquisitions, all bad, but not justified by the New Testament. Only a distorted and corrupted interpretation could allow such acts.

[gran guerrero]

my thoughts, you want my thoughts? YOU CAN'T HANDLE MY THOUGHTS

I subjectively think I am God and that this reality that is this world I live in is a figment of my own imagination where I believe that this shit is real, but deep down inside (thanks to numerous acid hits/mushroom trips/alcohol poisoning/ecstacy/oh and weed of course as well) I'm beginning to feel that this is all fake for my own amusement, so my mind is bending its will over my physical body to believe that I can do whatever the fuck I want (lol like neo from matrix - I created that story, cause it came from me see? lol) so my body is resisting by saying no you are real, don't make me fade away into nonexistence because you mind is saying so. Oh the conflict of my life, whether to accept that this is real and continue existing, or to just accept that its all fake and slip into nothingness.

thats JUST THZE TIP OF THE ICEBURZG BABY

[gran guerrero]

also smoke weed evry day

[gran guerrero]

back from UC, dont worry vati I saved it from obscurity, I'm god lulz

[Noah]

also smoke weed evry day

Gran wins! €:}->-<

[genocidal]

Crusades, inquisitions, all bad, but not justified by the New Testament. Only a distorted and corrupted interpretation could allow such acts.

Wholeheartedly agree. The same applies with the quotes from TagMor. More later on Tag's specific post quoting the Koran and the debate over New Testament doctrine. Til' then!

~TelCat

[gran guerrero]

noah be my guide for when i go to amsterdam

[Noah]

If that trip goes the way I want it I doubt I'll remember enough to guide you out of the airport.

[Galaxy Turbo]

Sorry TagMor, but I looked up like, the first four quotations and crossing them with the verses that are stated in the link you showed me, and they are not exact.

You said:

"And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter" - Sura 2:191-193

According to http://www.quranexplorer.com (When I searched)

"And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (191) But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (192) And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers. (193)"

Take note, "fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there". This quote indicates that it is defensive, Jihad is also defensive and your referenced quotation would make it look look like Muslims would be justified in going on the offensive, waging war against the disbelievers in order to spread Islam, which just simply isn't true.

Islam doesn't promote extremism/violence and is in fact one of the most peaceful religions out there, Islam is spread dominantly by peaceful means. Your quotations are slightly different, and by only quoting parts of the text and removing it from its context are you making dangerous assumptions which provoke possible hostility from others. That's just something I'm letting you know now.

I don't deny that Christianity isn't peaceful, this was a religion sent by God, and Islam doesn't attack Jews and Christians, as these are followers of a religion sent down by the same god.

Funnily enough though TagMor, Islamic Extremism is actually spread through quotations such as the ones you referenced, by misinterpretation of the text. I encourage you to find a genuine hard-copy of an English translated copy of the Holy Qu'ran, and understand what it is that makes Islam peaceful. Seeing as you're hopefully not a close-minded person (not from what I know of you anyway), I think it would be interesting for you to take a further look into it in this way.

[Ronn]

The video was also clearly wrong.

The video isnt wrong. From CIA world factbook on wiki.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...fertility_rate

I think Galleleo seems adamant on a waging a racial holy war by himself if neccesary to stop Holland becoming an Islamic state, goodluck Galle.