Weasel Nerf'd

[deutschpunkrevolte]

And for the love of God man... your opinion or not, but Weasels ARE effective for basing, and have always been. It's like having a member of your team draw fire away from you so the rest of you can take the objective. Distract and destroy is a very common tactic in any type of war game. Weasels fit into base by keeping the Terr on its toes, by taking out Warbirds in mid that were pinning your team down, and taking out the Javs firing down the tube. But now that everyone can just glance at radar(no x radar is needed to know a weasel is present) their job has been maimed in the process. Yes it takes more skill, but it makes other ships need less skill to deal with them.

if u fly fast u can use cloak (when u are one screen away and u see ur enemy on the radar) then rush to the enemy and kill someone before u have not enuf energy to shoot. but it is harder now coz u are doomed if something unforeseen happens. if you dont kill ur enemy with the first shot u are surely dead. and skilled players that watch the radar know what happens if they see that a blue point just fadded away.
ppl that played weasel in the last days and arenot news like tone will understand me perhaps

u can still use weasel but it is just VERY weak now. crippeled. but u can use it.

[SpiderMage]

I dont hate the ship but I want balance in pub.

Kolar I really have to catch this sentence here. As such a long standing player as you are(and perhaps other war type games) you really do seem to be failing to have seen the balance that had been around since before these new Weasel settings.

Think of Weasels like a lower predator in nature, maybe even a scavenger if you have to. They were never designed, and never were over powered to be the lead attacker. They were made to be population control(you said yourself that the out burst of javs is in direct correlation to the weakening of the weasel), it's just like in nature. If a species or animal grows weaker, it can't control the population as well as it should. Weasels were meant to take down the occassional enemy, taking out a Warbird here, Jav there, maybe a Spider and a Terr or two, but now their job is harder while everyone else's is easier, and that is not good balance, because that's like weakening a lion or hyena and in turn the gazelles and other prey of the newly weakened predators can easily avoid them thus making them completely ineffective.

And for the love of God man... your opinion or not, but Weasels ARE effective for basing, and have always been. It's like having a member of your team draw fire away from you so the rest of you can take the objective. Distract and destroy is a very common tactic in any type of war game. Weasels fit into base by keeping the Terr on its toes, by taking out Warbirds in mid that were pinning your team down, and taking out the Javs firing down the tube. But now that everyone can just glance at radar(no x radar is needed to know a weasel is present) their job has been maimed in the process. Yes it takes more skill, but it makes other ships need less skill to deal with them.

[deutschpunkrevolte]

douche bag armys first mission was to destroy the enema by destroying its head

tone has now a smashed face


stay online for further reports from the frontline
who wants to be the next victim bois?
:fear:

[Eeks]

Eeks was talking about ?go base and in general the basing comunity since it has be diluted by newer players. The older players have lost their drive to do all that they can to win.

My opinion had nothing to do with new players or old players. Observe ?go base for a while and you'll see how everyone is just playing for the ratio.

[Tone]

I was fine with the old weasel with the rocket. So were lots of other guys. Again, we could move back in that direction. Cloak and Stealth with no drain, lose the speed increase from the last improvement, keep the rotation and X Radar, but keep the rocket gone.

IF the weasel is seen as a bit to weak, and thats a real BIG IF...then starting with one rocket might be acceptable and a good idea. maybe they can not always start with a rocket, just like lanc doesnt always have multi, or shark doesnt always have Xradar. in fact shark rarely has X radar. it should probably be more often than shark gets radar, but less than lanc gets multi.

Edit PS: i dont want you people thinking that i think i know whats best.. or that i think they listen to me. i do not think that, its just an idea to throw out.

[Tone]

Yeah, the settings are working well for you and your spawner/LT buddies. Every pub, pure and otherwise, that I've watched in the past two days has been dead as far as basing goes. Yep, settings are working. Uh huh.

The settings are working.
The settings are working.

Oh so i guess that means you do not base, you and your cloakers want to sit in the field and make sure everyone else goes and bases. once they go base they get Xed like crazy anyway (on old settings)

[deutschpunkrevolte]

douche bag not interested in words of men that speak like politicians and use words as many as women do

douche bag now goes to guerilla tactics :shuriken:

[Kolar]

So basically what you're saying is that you're a bunch of hypocrites.

No i'm saying The uppers will do what's in the best intrest of the zone and in some ways what the players find acceptable. This is one problem, the levis are another mostly delt with problem and shifting focus to it is not helping your case.

I think five times I've suggested this, and each and every time it's been deflected or ignored. What do you suppose I do?

Doing something about it is not talking on this forum. Doing something about it is talking with people in your own group, making propossals, talking with staff and trying to get their support (that does not include going on about why you think it happened). There are far better things to be doing then this.

I didn't hate staff. Look at each and every single one of my posts and find any single instance where I have went on about how much I hated staff or how they were all wrong? I'll save you a bit of time. There isn't any. But with the runaround this is generating? The self professed hypocritical behavior? I'm beginning to really understand why it is so many people do hate the staff.

Wasn't entirely meant for you but again if you guys want change you've gotta drop that kind of crap as a group.

No you're not. You're not either one of these, trying to help "us guys" or sorry at all. You're playing it all off until like Pure Hatred suggests people give up fighting the losing battle and just accept it. I could deal with that if were applied to the leviathan as well, but you won't. It's simple, we've stated what we want, the non-draining cloak and stealth, and we don't care if it costs the movement boost we gained, we don't care if it goes back to the old weasel with the rocket, that's what we want. Hell, some of us don't even care if it has to go all the way back to the big sized weasel. And the whole "I'm sorry it has to fit into something besides random spawning" is both insulting and manipulative.

I'm not going to be sorry because I've done nothing wrong. If you mean I should be sorry for wanting the weasel changed then that's just plain stupid, I dont hate the ship but I want balance in pub. I'm trying to remove the stupidity of such post like "Spawners whined and cried until they killed Weasel" or "TW is gonna die without weasel YO! We need them to killz tha LT.. YO!". I'm trying to put that kind of crap down because it is just down right stupid and i'm asking you to focus on anything but that so we can use forum productively, please you guys and make pubbing fun. Contrary to popular belief about this forum, we can actually convince, respect and finish this without treating each other like fucking shit. I think we can drop this kind of crap, you want to revert to the old settings (to me that's the larger, slower and less powerful weasel). I dont see a problem with that alone but it is detromental to smaller publics without having draining.

I'm gonna go with what's best for the zone Sarien and that means making consessions and accepting things that the masses has decided on. It's simple to understand, I'm trying to help TW and its players including you guys since you feel left out. Now if pleasing you meant damaging TW then i'm not going to support it. got it? If you've made up your mind then fine, step aside and Email the uppers. Most of the point I've address are about the weasel not being able to spawn WBs and levis, by all acounts that seems to be a hot topic with you guys and i'm sorry but none of you seem to want to bring the weasel into basing.

Dropping the drain entirely will not help smaller publics in the end, you can't get past that with any arugment.

[Sarien]

If we removed or tinkered with the levi we would lose a good deal of our population. On this matter I think the uppers know that that would happen and have attempted to make the effects of the levi lesser on pub basing.

So basically what you're saying is that you're a bunch of hypocrites.

Then do something about it.

I think five times I've suggested this, and each and every time it's been deflected or ignored. What do you suppose I do?

complete bullshit about how much you guys hate staff

I didn't hate staff. Look at each and every single one of my posts and find any single instance where I have went on about how much I hated staff or how they were all wrong? I'll save you a bit of time. There isn't any. But with the runaround this is generating? The self professed hypocritical behavior? I'm beginning to really understand why it is so many people do hate the staff.

i'm trying to help you guys get what you want and i'm sorry if that has to fit into something besides random spawning.

No you're not. You're not either one of these, trying to help "us guys" or sorry at all. You're playing it all off until like Pure Hatred suggests people give up fighting the losing battle and just accept it. I could deal with that if were applied to the leviathan as well, but you won't. It's simple, we've stated what we want, the non-draining cloak and stealth, and we don't care if it costs the movement boost we gained, we don't care if it goes back to the old weasel with the rocket, that's what we want. Hell, some of us don't even care if it has to go all the way back to the big sized weasel. And the whole "I'm sorry it has to fit into something besides random spawning" is both insulting and manipulative.

[PH]

Sarien, you're fighting a losing battle. Kolar insists he's in tune with what works and what doesn't work in pubs, yet the most I've ever seen him do in one is hop in a Spider for a few minutes and then move on to another arena. Just give up.

[Kolar]

I was fine with the old weasel with the rocket. So were lots of other guys. Again, we could move back in that direction. Cloak and Stealth with no drain, lose the speed increase from the last improvement, keep the rotation and X Radar, but keep the rocket gone.

That still isn't helping non pure publics. I think we can drain energy for both cloak and stealth a little slower without tinkering with it further.

So, why is the lev still in the game again?

If we removed or tinkered with the levi we would lose a good deal of our population. On this matter I think the uppers know that that would happen and have attempted to make the effects of the levi lesser on pub basing.

However, you can't have very much experience with this ship, seeing as how you talk about what it is and isn't good for, when there are people, and several people at that, that are able to do things with the ship that you say it isn't any good for.

It isn't a LT hunter, it doesn't lower the population of javs (and it has imo given rise to the abnormal number of them in publics) and it has little to no effect on the global public system yet it has made basing unstable at times. I'm not saying that a weasel couldn't physically kill a levi terrier just that it wouldn't be good at doing it with any of the 3 modern settings.

Permanently cloaking and stealth is not fair to all public arenas and I've
mentioned the intented goal for WBs and basic dueling ships, being the catalyse of pub basing.
It's simple Serien we're not encourging basing by not allowing the primintive game play to occure.

Not Being perminentally cloaked and stealthed now will bring more skill and thought process to using the weasel.
TW is a game not based on some RPG skill crap or character atributes only your learned ability to play. We're not making it fair to everyone by not challenging EVERYONE to play


Increasing the speed but lowering the weapon damage might make using this ship better in basing.
Basing is the only thing that should be of concern for publics Serien, everything else is not important. If we can not conform this ship to basing or balance it within that then it will be gimped

Your opinions can be wrong. If you have the opinion that 2+2=5? You're wrong. You're still allowed to have your opinion, sure. But that doesn't make you any more correct.

If I had an opinion backed by factual information in that sense I can be wrong. My opinion however can not be wrong in the sense that it is what I believe and facts aside, my opinion stems from experinece and observation. I don't think we can boil this down into facts, you can randomly look at a public and see people not basing but that does not mean the weasel or any other ship had effected it. My opinion wouldn't acount for a whole lot with the number of other older players still on TW but you can take everything I have to say as someone who has been here for a long while.

You wouldn't want a person that says all this same type of crap about a warbird, screwing with warbird settings, now would you?

Traditional and long standing ships like the Warbird: It is very unlikely that upper staff will ever change these ship settings so I don't see the connection to it with the weasel. You have to keep in mind that the weasel has little to no function in basing and little influence expect for occasionally annoying the masses or easily killing a base terrier, which it can still do.

If nothing else bring back the old weasel with the rocket. I'd rather deal with a ship that was deemed "too weak" than one that completely screws up the role the ship filled to begin with.

Then do something about it.

Your arguments are specious.

We're analyzing the entire public system Serien and you have to look at what brings people into hold the flag and what the role of upper staff is in maintaining that system especially when they change it.


Pure Hated:I've pubbed since 98 and still continue to do so when i'm not basing and the rest of the 5+ hours a day I get on TW is watching Public play. We're all here to talk so lets talk about making the zone better because between addressing crappy logic, complete bullshit about how much you guys hate staff and the never ending sernerios where weasels can battle anything, i'm trying to help you guys get what you want and i'm sorry if that has to fit into something besides random spawning.

[Sarien]

The method of reducing that could be done 2 ways yet you probably would bitch and whine against both. Reducing speed, weapons, rotation ect.. or reducing the cloaking ability and stealth.

I was fine with the old weasel with the rocket. So were lots of other guys. Again, we could move back in that direction. Cloak and Stealth with no drain, lose the speed increase from the last improvement, keep the rotation and X Radar, but keep the rocket gone.

If 1 ship makes that experince lesser or harder then we're not helping the publics.

So, why is the lev still in the game again?

Stop classifying me Sarien without even knowing who I am or what my opinions are. You can disagree with my opinion but you can never say I was 'wrong' to have that opinion or 'wrong' in that opinion. I have no problem with people wanting to cloak. If we can balance it and bring it into pub basing then i'll be happy to 'deal with it'. I saw the ship as being over powered, not the ability to cloak or stealth. Perminentlly cloaking and stealth is not something that is fair and balanced to the style of game play in public arenas. My experience if you would like to know spans from 1998-2005, so before you want to pull the 'stfu fucking newb' card why not take my experience , my knowledge and my advice for what it is, just another persons opinion and move on from there. We're still stuck on the who, how, why problems of the weasel topic and i'm getting tired of saying spawners, LT, new players and who ever else you hate had little to do with this change.

I don't hate new players, and I never once said anything close to "stfu newb" as that isn't even close to my style. However, you can't have very much experience with this ship, seeing as how you talk about what it is and isn't good for, when there are people, and several people at that, that are able to do things with the ship that you say it isn't any good for. Your opinions can be wrong. If you have the opinion that 2+2=5? You're wrong. You're still allowed to have your opinion, sure. But that doesn't make you any more correct.


Here is why (If it was you with input) you shouldn't have been monkeying with ship six:

Permanently cloaking and stealth is not fair to all public arenas and I've mentioned the intented goal for WBs and basic dueling ships, being the catalyse of pub basing.

Not Being perminentally cloaked and stealthed now will bring more skill and thought process to using the weasel.

Increasing the speed but lowering the weapon damage might make using this ship better in basing.

The weasel is ineffective at doing anything else but lame kill in lower,

You wouldn't want a person that says all this same type of crap about a warbird, screwing with warbird settings, now would you?

Reducing the speed, weapons and rotation and we would still have more people pissed off here.

If nothing else bring back the old weasel with the rocket. I'd rather deal with a ship that was deemed "too weak" than one that completely screws up the role the ship filled to begin with.


Your arguments are specious.

[Kolar]

I'd like to see proof. A correlation is not causation.

The fact that the Javlin's use has gone out of control since the changes to the weasel, You don't see any connection there?

u speak to much with no sense. we need a dictator. I am ur new dictator. I say everything sucks. we want our weasels back. I say luv me :wub:

TW is a ditatorship. Under that there are players and those players can organize and form into a comunity and that's how things pretty much have gone for the divisions of game play. I'm not seeing you guys doing this, only bickering about why this happened. If you wanna take the lead on the discussion go for it, i'm sure someone will side track you on this thread though.


As a group now you can look like complete dicks by quoting each and every sentence I've posted, trash me then post some more 'we hate staff' ..'fix our ship' or you could take it the easy way out by giving some solutions to this already identified and un debatable problem. I'm open to real solutions as I would hope upper staff is, so get started because the onus is on you guys.

[deutschpunkrevolte]

u speak to much with no sense. we need a dictator. I am ur new dictator. I say everything sucks. we want our weasels back. I say luv me :wub:

[Theif of Time]

The recent surge of javs can be traced to this issue since it does have X-Radar.

I'd like to see proof. A correlation is not causation.