Pub Timed Matches

[Shas'la T'au Kais]

Some things I've noticed today:

Weasels are really, really lame. Stealing the flag for 1 second when the other freq have about 20 secs to go is just stupid.

How about make it so you have to hold it for 5 seconds before the counter starts for the other team?

--

An on-screen counter like in ?go base would be nice. That way you can just glance up and see either how long you have to hold base, or to see how long the other freq have had it.

[Troll King]

If 8 good players can't hold off a weasel then how good can they be? And if it really is so hard to defend against that, then how can you say there's no challenge? You're trying to look at this through one definition of challenge and one definition of how to base. People always say that it's too easy to do this or to do that, but if it's easy to do one thing then wouldn't it mean that it's a challenge to counter it? The only "breakdown" is in that "good" team trying to play a certain style without realizing that pub is a different game and adapting to it. Again, this is yet another post showing someone trying to idealize pub into being ?go base. It's not and it shouldn't be.

I always remember a few years ago one particular player (I won't embarrass him by identifying him, because he wasn't a baser then but he started to base afterwards) who didn't like to base in pubs because it was too easy to get the flag. I had to explain to him that if it's so easy to get the flag then doesn't that mean that it's hard to keep it? That the challenges isn't in getting the flag but in preventing the other team from getting it?

It's not a matter of someone doing something that ruins the challenge. It's more a matter of it being a different kind of challenge than you thought it was.

[Kolar]

Is it necessary or within reason to allow a ship that can easily drag out one of these games for over an hour, to remain in game... when the time needed is 4 mins?!?


Yes it's a challenge, but is that challenge balanced, fair and playable? That's what you should be asking.

[Troll King]

Again, that depends on what you mean by "balanced, fair and playable". There's nothing stoping a team from being able to defend against cloakers. If you need more ships with x radar to defend against it, then you can change your ships to accommodate that. Is it fair? Yes, of course it is. It's in the settings, your team should know that it could happen and you have plenty of ways to counter it. It's not like it should be a surprise that leaves you with no way to defend yourself. Is it balanced? Again, you have plenty of ways to counter it, and this strategy isn't limited to just one team; either team can do the same thing. Is it playable? Again, yes it is, if you are able to adapt. If you aren't, then you might think that it is unplayable, but that's not a failure of the settings, it's a failure of your ability to adapt to it.

If every timed basing game lasts exactly 4 minutes, then that's not a sign of healthy basing. That's a sign of a lack of challenge.

[Kolar]

I have no problem with its cloaking or stealth ability mostly just the size. I know you've already diminished everyone who has and will say this but IT IS too easy for anyone to use the ship to disrupt FR battles or base defense. If anyone can use this ship to do it, they will because of the byt ensentive or just to be an ass. You can not always trust that will will have skilled and competitent people playing and knowing what to do, even if you give them the tools to do it. Just last night I, leroy, soli and a few other basers were holding the base for over 30 mins because we had around 5-6 cloakers rushing in. Not only is it too easy to do, it's dragging more people into doing it. If we want to keep this arena alive and the timer idea, something has to change, and change is feared by you TK and everyone else but it is not going to stop the timer from staying or from other updates being made.

Trusting that the setting are fair and balanced becasue "that's the way they are" is moronic.

[PH]

The time race crap does nothing for public basing. The quality is still horrible. In fact, when a team is failing to enter the flagroom, the first thing people do is climb in a weasel, sneak in through the roof and take the flag for half a second so their team can buy a few more minutes to launch more ill-advised jav bombs. This can cause a game to drag on for hours when it should be over every three minutes. If you think there's any skill whatsoever involved in this, then I'm sorry, but you've lost your mind.

The overall stupidity of the game has driven me into a period of semi-retirement/inactivity, so this will be my final post on this issue.

[cundor]

I love Pure Pub, really. Keep it that way....some adjustments are needed though -_-
Gj

[Guest]

well i was a little too lazy to see all the comments...but...Pure hatred said..

"The time race crap does nothing for public basing. The quality is still horrible. In fact, when a team is failing to enter the flagroom, the first thing people do is climb in a weasel, sneak in through the roof and take the flag for half a second so their team can buy a few more minutes to launch more ill-advised jav bombs. This can cause a game to drag on for hours when it should be over every three minutes. If you think there's any skill whatsoever involved in this, then I'm sorry, but you've lost your mind.

The overall stupidity of the game has driven me into a period of semi-retirement/inactivity, so this will be my final post on this issue."

i think this is definitely an improvement to the "public experience"...there is way more competition going on!



1:TranceTunes> dude honestly, this is a good change right?
1:TranceTunes> i think it is alot more fun with everyone active in basing hehe
1:Ren> as far as i can tell so far.. its not bad
1:Ren> true it helps with that
1:Ren> havent had any problems with it yet..
1:Ren> at first i was a bit against it cuz i felt they were meddling with our purepub..
1:Ren> but its not so bad
1:TranceTunes> cool
1:Ren> and it gets the competition up i think too

could use very slight improvements..i just wanted to say thanks for listening to the idea and making it happen...ive been waiting for a couple months since i posted it on staff forums...hehe...thanks =D

who is ready to get "re-addicted" to SS? =P

--------------------------------------------------------------
RoboBoy> This arena has pure pub settings enabled. Leviathans (Ship 4) are no longer allowed in this arena.
RoboBoy> Private Frequencies are currently disabled.
RoboBoy> Flag Time mode is currently running. Send !help to me for more information.

RoboBoy> Hello! I am a bot designed to enforce 'pure pub' rules.
RoboBoy> When enabled, I may restrict levis from playing, prevent private frequencies, or run Flag Time mode.
RoboBoy> Flag Time mode commands (a freq must hold flag for an amount of consecutive minutes to win):
RoboBoy> !Help -- Displays this help message.
RoboBoy> !Time -- Provides time remaining in Flag Time mode.
RoboBoy> !Warp -- Warps you into flagroom at start of next round.

--Recognition-- lol
(RoboHelp)>This message has been sent by Rudy:
(RoboHelp)>The SSCU Trench Wars staff would like to say Thank You!
(RoboHelp)>If you have any other questions regarding this issue, please use :Rudy:<Message>.

[genocidal]

LTing is a part of life, and they're here to stay, yo.

[Troll King]

I have no problem with its cloaking or stealth ability mostly just the size. I know you've already diminished everyone who has and will say this but IT IS too easy for anyone to use the ship to disrupt FR battles or base defense. If anyone can use this ship to do it, they will because of the byt ensentive or just to be an ass. You can not always trust that will will have skilled and competitent people playing and knowing what to do, even if you give them the tools to do it. Just last night I, leroy, soli and a few other basers were holding the base for over 30 mins because we had around 5-6 cloakers rushing in. Not only is it too easy to do, it's dragging more people into doing it. If we want to keep this arena alive and the timer idea, something has to change, and change is feared by you TK and everyone else but it is not going to stop the timer from staying or from other updates being made.

Trusting that the setting are fair and balanced becasue "that's the way they are" is moronic.

I wouldn't say that I'm afraid of change. In fact, if you look throughout this thread, I've already suggested a couple of changes. What I actually think is that the zone's elites have been so out of touch with pub that I think ?go base and other "organized" basing games have made them soft. Now that people are talking about playing in pubs again, I find that they are ill-equipped to adapt themselves and "rough it". They have been used to seeing basing being performed in a certain way, but now that we're moving back into pub they see something that didn't exist in their old paradigm. Instead of being able to change their styles of play to fit back into pub, they are trying to fit pubs into their style of play. The problem I have is that these people are actually in the minority. Why should pub have to change that much just to please a small elite? As much as you'd like to think that I'm afraid of change pubs, I could also say that those elite are afraid of changing their own styles of plays to fit back into pub.

I'm not afraid of change at all. What I am afraid of is drastic change that affects a majority in order to suit a minority. You say that my trust that the current settings are "fair and balanced" is a moronic position, but I would again counter that your trusting that the settings that YOU are used to seeing in ?go base as being fair and balanced, not to mention somehow superior, is just as moronic.

[Kolar]

We will never agree TK. I think you're wrong though, a lot more people like the new timer and a lot more basing is happening in these arenas, the only real oposition I've seen are base players complaining that basing should be confined to "good" players.


I think publics have become stagnant with no visaiable goal left for new players and for older public players. People can adapt to public play, it's not like it's harder then winning a LB game, same settings ect. I think when we decide to update the zone we should first view how all elements would effect a system, like the weasel has. Weasels existed, they could be used in ?go base yet with the ammount of competitve play happening there it was very unwise to use it, now with a modified time race the problem is multiplied 10 times in my opinion. It's easy to fix this problem, and if you haven't tried playing publics yet like this.. go try it out but just make sure you have 2 hours or so.

All players want the game to be fair and playable, this game is based on skill so if something is far to easy to use or does not take any skill to use or do something- this is is meaning less, worthless and worth changing to make the game balanced. I think where you're getting off on the wrong track is by mistaking ?go base, LB and publics as not being the same game type. It's all basing and any small differences have little impact on the people who play it, or on the way it should be played. It's about making the game most favoriable to basing so that it will take place more often. If you want to say Qan's timer isn't doing that or not doing it well enough that's fine, everything else is just junk.

[Mr. Peanuts]

TK, do you mean that in ?go base, people expect their teammates to know what they are doing and understand the tactics of basing?

[Troll King]

You're forgetting something though: this timed pub is just one of a half dozen pubs that are running at any one time. The changes you are proposing for the weasel affect all the arenas but they're being made to accommodate the one timed pub arena. Are you seriously contemplating a zone wide ship setting change just because it benefits one arena?

I've had no problem with the timed game, that hasn't been what I've been complaining about. It's these secondary changes like changing the weasels, or placing ship limits. What I also take offence to is these people who, after years of foresaking pub and thinking themselves to be too good for public arenas, are trying to push ahead their own ideas of what pubs should be like over those who have been playing in pubs the whole time.

EDIT: No, Peanuts, I'm not saying that everyone in ?go base knows what they're doing, but I am saying that everyone in there IS basing and it's a faulty assumption to think we can just expect that in pubs.

[Kolar]

No, I am suggesting staff make changes that would benefit basing entirely in all publics. If the timer idea is ever going to have an impact on the zone like we would want it to then it has to be able to fit into those arenas, and changing the weasel (resizing it) would also solve other problems for the pubs. I don't want more ship limits, I want to solve those problems for all publics so we don't have to hold onto 1 or 2 arenas where we can actually play the game.


I've been playing both pub and ?go base the whole time. I don't see much difference between the two. The effect I'm seeing is a lot of people just basing and having fun. I don't see the need for all this shit when this thing is clearly working yet needs vitial changes.

[Krusnik]

TW needs weasels. Even though everybody else including myself hate weasels we need them. In society weasels are like squeegeeing hobo's, or in rpg's they're the looters, and the leechers. Weasels in my opinion are the low levels and whats a society with low levels? The timing thing is awesome but i'd keep the weasels even if they disrupt the whole base........ they make things more challenging. which is why i play this game.