Trench Wars... has changed.

[kthx]

Right, listen "roxxxcat" there is something to be said about game comprehension, not spoiled indulgences.

I have game comprehension.

[roxxkatt]

too bad "ctthx", that you dont understand that people COME BACK to play this.

[Epinephrine]

Listen as much as people appreciate the work you did on Distension you as the game creator are pushing this way too zealously. Keeping the game on longer isn't going to make things better, or having a queue where you can leave the arena and go play other games while waiting to get in isn't going to make things better. If anything hosts will be even more pissed off and competition in other events will just dwindle even further as people leave to take slots who were playing the event.

There is a rift in TW between people who think Distension is the savior of this game, and people who think that Distension is killing this game. I thought about ways to make it more of a middle ground, having in-game distension based squads, getting more rp for being a part of the squad, getting more rp for being an assistant/cap of a squad, having squad duels where each squad is on one of the teams in distension and having the winner be the squad with the most kills after 10 minutes. At least this way it gets newer players involved in the intricacies of being involved in a squad in TW.

However the move I have thought about I see that this isn't going to be an actual possibility. Soon we are really going to have to sit down as a zone and discuss what is better for the game. Either we pull out all the stops and literally let Distension become the primary focus of this game, or we pull the plug on it and give it a limited amount of time to be hosted during the week, such as a maximum of two hours a day non peak times. Whenever distension is on, hosting is down, wbduel, base, javduel, and all these other events population is down. TWL/TWD style events can't peacefully coincide with Distension as it is hosted now.

Now like I said before I understand how many hours, and how much work have gone into this game but you are being oblivious to the fact that much more time, energy, and effort has been devoted into making sure TWL/TWD and similar events are THE primary events in TW. You can sit here and go by pure numbers if you would like.. maybe more people do log on to play distension and maybe the zones numbers are up, but at the price of taking away the reason why some of this zones longest playing members, and most respected and revered players log on.. to play TWD style games. Don't think this isn't happening either, if you take a listen to the populace who plays elims and wbduels they will tell you they hate it when Distension is on. And I personally would have to agree with them as someone who thinks that TWL should be TW's main draw and concern.

Distension can't and shouldn't be the reason people play this game, if it comes down to it and Distension is the only reason people log on then I know my time, and many other players time on this game has come to an end. It wouldn't even be TW anymore if this happened, and I personally would rather see this zone die out completely as it is, than to be twisted and mutated into something it isn't to make it last another few short years.

-- Wark.

Quoted for truth.

Distension seems like a pretty cool arena, maybe someday I will log on after reading the 10 pages of instructions to play it.

But there are a lot of other things in the zone that also take and have taken a long time to set up and run, don't forget.


The real thing though is that TW is just old... I mean I don't even play it anymore and I played this game pretty hardcore for 8 years.

[MaGi kOz]

OUT WITH THE OLD IN WITH THE NEW SHIT!

Hey. The newbies can come and learn the game on pub. The guys bored with pub can go play distension for an enhanced, "like-you're-on-acid", affect. The guys who aren't interested with Distension can go where ever else the fuck they want. Everyone else can go keel over and die (quit playing the game). In the end, you can't force people to do whatever you want them to do by simply pressing a button.

People are going to want to play distension. People are going to want people to NOT play distension. People are going to be sick of this game. And people are going to continue to love it as that good ol' 2d spaceship game they grew up playing. In the end, you can't force people to do whatever you want them to do by simply pressing a button.

You can try- shoot you can even lead a well funded campaign to run any kinda idea into the ground. You're only helping to destroy something of someone who had good intentions of the well being of this zone and the last I checked, bitching doesn't do much. It only reminds people that you're still around to bitch some more. It makes people nervous and act quickly so that they may cause other people to do things that they think is right but it's one of those things that people'll question in the end... sort of like this. But it's okay because he had good intentions and was trying to save the zone. But then again it's not alright, although he had good intentions, it is killing the zone.

This is all just too interesting

You know why I still play? Because this game is all too familiar. It's changed but I still see some of the same names around and I can still do some of the same things. Then I'm reminded why I even kept playing after that first year, second year, third year. At least the reason why I, myself, still come back. It's because not only can I be apart of the game, but I can also help pave a path for it's future where ever that may lead to. That is really the question to be asking and connecting with everyone on is that question: What keeps you coming back for more? That's the question to be building a foundation on: What keeps you coming back for more? That's the question that everyone should be focusing on.

If I'm wrong. Then this game is definitely heading to it's grave... at least TW is. I'll be in EG if this shit hits the fans. =)

[kthx]

Like most threads, Epine agreeing with you is pretty much the win. I guess my arguments win.

[Jeenyuss]

we need more people. we need to SET UP A FUCKING DONATION thing and then buy some adspace on websites.

arhgh.

[Liquid Blue]

so i've just read up on the couple topics here about distension

it sounds pretty lame

the beauty of TW pub is that you can hop in and start killing people, I wouldn't want to do some rpg shit that takes time to learn commands and all this other mess

I know TW is dying but god damn

don't make distention pub

[Maverick]

so i've just read up on the couple topics here about distension

it sounds pretty lame
[...]
I wouldn't want to do some rpg shit that takes time to learn commands and all this other mess

You're judging on what you read instead of experiencing it yourself. Don't.

[Liquid Blue]

I don't want to play it

it sounds dumb

[roxxkatt]

then stfu and gtfo, ignorant newb

[Vehicle]

The real thing though is that TW is just old...

The newbies can come and learn the game on pub. The guys bored with pub can go play distension for an enhanced, "like-you're-on-acid", affect. The guys who aren't interested with Distension can go where ever else the fuck they want. Everyone else can go keel over and die (quit playing the game).

These two are true.

Trench Wars has been dying for like 4 years now? I guess it depends on what prophecy you believe. Distension didn't do it.

Now I understand that currently you log on and no one is in elim or duel so you get sand in your vagina (since it seems to be mostly duelers bitching), that's fair. In fact, it kind of reminds me of what happened to baseelim ... 2 years ago?

But consider that things in TW are always hugely popular in the beginning and eventually the fanfare subsides. While I think you guys have some valid arguments (mostly being: but now I can't do anything else), I also think this is temporary.

This is a user-supported spaceship game and because of that I think we as staff are indebted to the users. By this I mean that we should provide what the people online want. And it's clear that the majority has spoken and Distension is a commodity in high demand. With that being said, though, I do think a compromise can be reached and I think if you guys took a moment to look at how distension is being handled you'd realize concessions have already been made. (ie: it's not running all the time, setting it up so you don't have to wait in the arena when on line)

All in all, you have reason to complain but this isn't an all or nothing situation.

[DankNuggets]

ITT we have several people for and against distension (note that being for distension isn't necessarily for 24/7 playing, and being agianst is thinking it should be on as little as possible)


For: myself, cheese, dako, paradise, vehicle, dugwyler

Against: Epinephrine, LB, Kthx

sorry if i missed anybody. Anyone notice a trend?? Maybe how the people for distension are the ONLY ones who have tried it and given it a chance? Or how about the only people strictly agaisnt it are ones who either haven't played it or refuse to play it. Or, maybe they spent 10 minutes on it one day, just to say they tried it so they can bitch about it.

Maybe you haters would enjoy it if you gave it a chance, but then again you don't want to enjoy it, you want to go play TWL and have 50 ppl sit in spec watching you validate yourselves.

Really, many people have come to the conclusion that they will never play TWL because of skill, lag, or determination. They play TWD to stick around with squadmates, and to have something to do besides the drone of pub; but they don't want to play TWL, or they know they'll never play TWL. So please give it a rest with the "TWL is the end-all, be-all of TW". Yeah, it's the most prestegious part, but like someon's already said, it caters to only the top few in the zone.

Distension is open for everyone, and that's one of the reasons it's caught on so well. You don't have to be the best, which pisses off the people who think that life is only about winning TWLs. There complaints about "nerds with no life, playing all the time" echos this sentiment. I personally don't care if i'm ever anywhere near the top ranked people, it's about enjoying the game, not validating myself. That's why I played TWD, not to win TWL (fuck, I know my squad would never accept an invite anyway), but to have fun playing the game.


If you asked kthx/epi/LB a month ago if they gave a shit about wether or not I'm playing dds or events, they would have laughed. Now the same people are oh-so concerned that people like me aren't playing those events anymore. Thanks for the concern, but I think I can choose which arena/event give me the most joy on my own.

[kthx]

This isn't about me caring about you playing TWL Dank, this is about turning this zone away from the way it was supposed to be played. Don't you understand when you look at the list of players who support/oppose Distension that the older players who have spent so many years on this game are the ones who don't want it to be on all the time? Distension should be its own zone, if that takes away 60-70 people out of Trench Wars that is fine so be it.

However you do know that eventually people will stop wanting to play Distension because it doesn't have the permanent hold that being a part of TWL/TWD has on it. You don't care about TWL because you aren't competitive, I mean what your saying is.. you could go play maple story and just enjoy the beautiful scenery instead of leveling up your character. Games are made for a specific reason, with a specific idea, and when players started playing Trench Wars because they liked the simplistic idea of the zone to have generally one ship settings starting with being a pubber to being a pro TWL player is why they kept playing. Basically by wanting Distension more you are changing the idea of what TW is about. It is very very easy to say "screw twl/twd not everyone wants to be competitive" but it is just as easy for me to say "twl/twd is going to be less competitive if people think Distension is the most cool event in TW"

And vehicle you are partially right, Distension will eventually die down and become less popular. But the fact that these Distension freaks don't see the obvious of "if its hosted 24/7 its going to become bland even quicker" they think that it will never not be fun. That is sorta what makes me think that they don't understand the mechanics of this game, or any games in general. By cutting down on Distension to 30 hours a week (which is still too much, it needs to be 20 or so) at least staff is admitting there was a problem with how much it was hosted, and are taking steps to make sure that there is a better balance in this game for the people who Hate distension and go afk when it is on, and the people who only go unafk while distension is on. Anyways that is why it is so important that we talk about this Distension thing, because while its creators and supporters motives might be pure, they also don't understand what happens when you over host something very popular. Like I read earlier, kids eating chocolate.

[Liquid Blue]

Maybe you haters would enjoy it if you gave it a chance, but then again you don't want to enjoy it, you want to go play TWL and have 50 ppl sit in spec watching you validate yourselves.

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showpos...6&postcount=23

I made a more in depth response to the whole idea of Distension becoming the pub standard there.

Now before you guys keep flipping a shit because I don't want to play Distension, you need to understand something. I don't care if it's in the zone, I just don't think it should be the pub standard.

I'll repeat that, for clarity sake.

I don't think Distension should be the pub standard for TW.

TW pub should be simple, intuitive and very easy to pick up, right off the bat. This game does not have graphics, innovation or an engrossing story going for it, so it needs to promote it's strengths- it's simplicity and the community.

Get people's competitive spirits up and have some great basing games, maybe a few different bases to fight in, ramp up the squad rivalries, have some contests- just keep the basic gameplay really simple and easy to understand from the get go. You literally need to be able to explain this game in 5 sentences or less, basically just give them the keys to blow shit up and shove them on a team and towards a base.

TW is one of the zones that has lasted the longest, but anyone who disagrees that Subspace has been dying for at least the past 6 years either hasn't played long enough or is in denial. Player decline is finally seriously starting to hit TW (I remember other zones having 25-50 players max while DSB and TW had like 500 at almost any given time in like 2001) and people are running themselves ragged trying to find a scape goat. The game is old, and it's boring. Let's not beat around the bush. What keeps it entertaining is the community (squad chats alone have saved this player base more times than anyone can probably count) and the simplicity of the game.

Sure pub needs some changes, but I don't think Distension is the way to go. Just keep it as a separate event like zombies or move it to a new zone. Wark is again right about how if it's 24/7 the shit will get mad old, really fast. I don't even know why people are arguing against that, it's common sense and has been proven repeatedly in multiple other games.

But yea, TW is that cantankerous old dude that refuses to die even though he's on life support and pees himself all the time.

[DankNuggets]

just skip to the solutions in red for short version

This isn't about me caring about you playing TWL Dank,...

It might not be about me personally, but it is about people playing TWL instead of distension. If you want me to believe that TWL is the end-all be-all of trenchwars, you're going to have to get PrittK to say it himself. It may be one of the reasons the zone has survived, but that doesn't mean it will keep it running forever. And appearently, you're quite happy with the zone dying out.

To answer your question about that list of players: yes, I do understand that it's a list of older players who no longer play the game remotely as often as your average distension-goer. You show me a list of players who actually play this game often and oppose it, and I'll show you a bigger list of players who play often and are for it. Fuck, I could just screen shot from distension at any random period in the day, even when it's not on.

However you do know that eventually people will stop wanting to play Distension because it doesn't have the permanent hold that being a part of TWL/TWD has on it.

No, I don't know that, and you don't either, so quit it. Permanent hold??? ROFL, LMAO. That permanent hold is why you complain ENDLESSLY about the lack of competition. TWL/TWD is far from as engrossing as distension.
You got me, I can't prove that an arena that's been public for a month will last forever. You want me to try to prove god exists again too? Go ahead and try to disprove it, you're just spewing BS with that sentence.

You don't care about TWL because you aren't competitive, I mean what your saying is.. you could go play maple story and just enjoy the beautiful scenery instead of leveling up your character.

You're damn right. I also don't give a shit about any part of this zone that I stand ZERO chance of being involved with. go figure. Hell, I even tried to get interested in the idea, even pushed for an AML to get more ppl involved. You fucking didn't like that either. TWL of six years ago and nothing else will please kthx. Maybe the reason this zone has gone to shit the last few years is that it caters to only the elite, and does little to maitain the interests of the rest.

I'm completely unfamiliar with maple story, as you seem to be with distension. It's not a RPG, sorry for the confusion. It's no more a "role playing game" than trench wars is in general: you play the role of a pilot, killing other pilots. I guess it's your own short-sightedness that keeps you from realizing there are other rewarding aspects of distension besides being the highest ranked ship on your team.

Games are made for a specific reason, with a specific idea, and when players started playing Trench Wars because they liked the simplistic idea of the zone to have generally one ship settings starting with being a pubber to being a pro TWL player is why they kept playing.

Games are made to be enjoyed by the people playing them. They can enjoy different aspects, this isn't solitaire or minesweeper with only one purpose to it. People enjoy many different aspects of trenchwars, too bad you only seem to enjoy one. When players started playing trenchwars, and why they play now aren't the same reasons, sorry. It's your misconception that everyone wants to make the jump from pubber to pro TWL player that keeps you from ever making a good argument. I've never had that expectation, and yet, here I am, playing trenchwars. I guess I'm the fucking exception to your rules.

Basically by wanting Distension more you are changing the idea of what TW is about. It is very very easy to say "screw twl/twd not everyone wants to be competitive" but it is just as easy for me to say "twl/twd is going to be less competitive if people think Distension is the most cool event in TW"

I guess no one ever told you that in order to survive, one must adapt. It's easy for me to say "screw twl/twd not everyone wants to be competitive" because it's true. It's not a prediction, it's an observation. It's easy for you to say "twl/twd is going to be less competitive if people think Distension is the most cool event in TW" because that's your argument against EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN IMPLEMENTED INTO, OR SUGGESTED IN THE PAST FEW YEARS. It's a prediction 1, and 2, it's not necessarily true. I've said it before, there are at least two ways to define competition: one being sheer numbers of competiters, the other being the range of skill level involved. At no point does that necessarily imply being better or worse than previous TWL players, it's completely a relative term. If there are less players in TWL, it would be reasonable to assume only the people who are already good stay (already like this). If only the good people stay, then isn't that increasing the overall skill level of TWL in your opinion? Either way, people have been quitting, and as you say the competition is going downhill. Have you considered this is a good way to seperate the people who will continue to play TWL from the people who are only doing it because there's nothing better to do (ie not competitie)?

And vehicle you are partially right, Distension will eventually die down and become less popular. But the fact that these Distension freaks don't see the obvious of "if its hosted 24/7 its going to become bland even quicker" they think that it will never not be fun. That is sorta what makes me think that they don't understand the mechanics of this game, or any games in general.

Distension dying down is in the BEST interest of EVERYONE. No one likes to wait 30 mins to play it, and no one likes it hogging all the players. What's your point here? This is actually what we want <_<. You think it will eventually not be fun... i wonder if this stems from you already thinking it's not fun. Do you think TWL is fun? Do you think elim is fun? What about pub? That's a catch-22: if you say yes, then you admit distension could continue to be fun, just like all these 24/7 arenas. If you say no, then you're also agreeing that even if it's not fun, it will continue to have people playing it. The only way it will die completely, is if distension 2.0 rolls out, and everyone moves on to that.

This is what makes me think that you don't understand distension AT ALL. Because you think that such a popular event will move into obscurity... like all the other arenas? If people are complaining in two years that distension is growing stale, how is that ANY DIFFERENT than the people comlaining that ALMOST EVERY OTHER ARENA is also growing stale? ? ? ? Once again, I'm questioning your understanding of the game in general.

By cutting down on Distension to 30 hours a week (which is still too much, it needs to be 20 or so) at least staff is admitting ...

By cutting any time away from distension, you're alienating those people. When will you learn that when distension ends, people don't immediately go play TWD or events to fill that void. They're not the same, and not as interesting to the players as distension. If they were, then they would be playing the instead. Don't you understand economics? If you artifically restrict the supply of a product that's in high demand, you INCREASE THE DEMAND FOR THE PRODUCT, while also increasing it's worth. You're shooting yourself in the foot with this type of solution; it will most likely increase support for distension, doing the opposite of what you hope to achieve. Staff doesn't need to restrict the time because you consider distension a problem. The thing is, it's not an event... and it doesn't need to be hosted. It doesn't a set beginning and endpoint that can be reached in one host, which every other event has. It's no more an event than elim, which is actually closer to being an event as it has a beginning and an end.

To achieve the balance you speak of, you need to meet try to meet the goals of both parties. You simply aren't doing that. Begin by saying what each side really wants-- not distension simply being up or down. Half right in that pro-distension people want to see distension up and running. Half wrong in that anti-distension people just want to see it down. In reality, they want to play other arenas. To get to this solution, where pro-d can play distension, and anti-d can play their arenas, you need to rethink your approach. Instead of making it one or the other, and splitting time, you need to think of a way to make both coexist.

1) I suggest allowing distension to run 24/7 with the improved queue, so that the arena only has 40-50 ppl in it at a time. That alone will free upwards of 20+ people for dds and purepub. Next, be patient. We all know that the appeal will wane some, though not to the extent where it dies completely. Once it's down to only 40 or less ppl wanting to play at a time, then you've acheived the balance where people who want to play can, and people who don't want to play can still have others to play with.

2) I'm less thrilled with this one. Allow it to run 24/7, but put a cap on how many hours a person can log in one day. This way, people don't have to schedule there lives around the game, and can't put any more time in than anyone else. That's friggin fair in anybody's book. That way, people who only want to play distension (and there are a few) can. People who want to play distension, but are limited by time can. People who want to DD, and play elim, but also want to play distension, can now manage their time. They'll be able to DD AND play distension. This solution really helps out those that have limited windows in which to play.