Trench Wars... has changed.

[DankNuggets]

I made a more in depth response to the whole idea of Distension becoming the pub standard there.

don't worry, i'll never push for that. this is typical fear-mongering, qan's never suggested this AFAIK, and it's only been thrown out there with a myriad of other suggestions.

Sure pub needs some changes, but I don't think Distension is the way to go. Just keep it as a separate event like zombies or move it to a new zone. Wark is again right about how if it's 24/7 the shit will get mad old, really fast. I don't even know why people are arguing against that, it's common sense and has been proven repeatedly in multiple other games.

But yea, TW is that cantankerous old dude that refuses to die even though he's on life support and pees himself all the time.

You really can't say that (or agree with wark's assessment) until you've played it enough to become familiar with it. I'm actually suprised you've gone this far without any base knowledge on it to argue from.

Why would you keep it a seperate event like zombies? The two are apples and oranges. It's not something that's played for 30 minutes, and then there's a winner. It's something, that when it goes down, people are left empty, because there's no resolution. Events have a resolution, if they don't they are declared failures (think a deathmatch with 2 ppl running from each other for 20 mins).

Wark has no way to predict how this game will fair if played 24/7, when it was tried over the first weekend, it probably added to it's popularity. Of course it will plateau, who's suggested it won't?

and once again, how can you say it will get boring if you haven't played it??????????????????? and neither has wark.......... you guys are becoming experts on distension really fast. I'm not saying it will always be a full arena, but there's never a constantly full arena... so that's not really a point of contention. However, distension has shown it's ability to sustain a large playerbase so far.

Also, since you've never played it, you probably don't understand that it's NOT fun to play 30 mins at a time, once or twice a week. It's fun to play for long periods of time, and often. If it's only 2x a week or something like that, it will die out MUCH FASTER THAN IT WOULD AT 24/7. You don't level fast enough to feel rewarded getting one rank every month (which is how it would be if it was hosted 20 hrs or less a week). We are working up ideas to prolong the interest in the game, and I feel that we'll be more successful than any other section of the game at keeping it fresh and interesting.

so please, if you're going to pick up wark's agenda, do something he won't: RESEARCH

[kthx]

I don't feel like arguing about this anymore, I have said what I needed to say.. with this in mind..


?chat=distblows - its a chat for people who hate distension and think it is bad for trenchwars, to get together and figure out ways to make sure that people understand how bad it is for the zone by any means necessary.

[DankNuggets]

I don't feel like arguing about this anymore, I have said what I needed to say.. with this in mind..


?chat=distblows - its a chat for people who hate distension and think it is bad for trenchwars, to get together and figure out ways to make sure that people understand how bad it is for the zone by any means necessary.

please, don't stop now, you're doing such a good job of disproving everything I've said.

Oh, and good idea splitting up the playerbase into factions instead of pushing for solutions. That will save trenchwars.

[Liquid Blue]

don't worry, i'll never push for that. this is typical fear-mongering, qan's never suggested this AFAIK, and it's only been thrown out there with a myriad of other suggestions.

That's good to hear, from the two or three topics I've read about Distension, a number of people are really harping about how it's going to save the zone and should become pub standard, which I think is inherently wrong.

You really can't say that (or agree with wark's assessment) until you've played it enough to become familiar with it. I'm actually suprised you've gone this far without any base knowledge on it to argue from.

I can say and will say whatever I have on my mind about pub- I've played it in particular for far too many hours. I'm not knocking your Distension game chill out, I'm simply saying it doesn't need to become the new pub. It's a new event and people are desperately trying to find new forms of enjoyment out of this game, so they latch onto Distension. I'm sure the game is a blast chief, I just don't think it should be pub 24/7.

Why would you keep it a seperate event like zombies? The two are apples and oranges. It's not something that's played for 30 minutes, and then there's a winner. It's something, that when it goes down, people are left empty, because there's no resolution. Events have a resolution, if they don't they are declared failures (think a deathmatch with 2 ppl running from each other for 20 mins).

If it's detracting enough players where you have 30 people sitting in spec, it's obvious that the other events/arenas are going to suffer- elim, TWL, pub. The zone has a low enough population as it is that it doesn't need to have 30+ players just sitting in spec watching when they could be filling other portions of the zone. I never gave a time limit, but on the flip side I don't see why you can't have a schedule like Vehicle has been suggesting. It doesn't need to be going 24/7, otherwise it will get old, and get old fast.

And before I get any further, let me define what I mean by fast. Subspace came out in 96, 97? This game has been running for 11 or 12 years, so it's been here for awhile. It slowed down around 2001/2002, and has been on the decline ever since. When I say it will get old fast, I mean that I personally think Distension; if it was made the pub standard, would entertain players for a few months, at best. The problem with those few months, is that the players who didn't like Distension, who didn't want it to become the pub main, would find other stuff to do. Be it other videogames, life "outside", college, friends, whatever- they would find something else to take up their time. If Distension burned out after a few months and the zone tried to go back to pub, some of the old players would return, but alot wouldn't. The game is fun to return to every now and then but if you go a year or so without playing it you won't ever really feel the need to go back. There's just so much more to do.

To make sure this doesn't become a block of text, Distension as the pub main could easily speed up the death of TW rather than prevent it. That's what I meant. And yes I believe it will get old fast because it's fresh and exciting, it's not the same old elim or pub that people have wasted hundreds of hours in. But it's going to lose that "new" shine eventually, and that will only happen faster if it's made accessible 24/7. I understand what you're trying to say about the length of time (I guess since I mentioned zombies you think I'm trying to give you guys time limits?) but it's the same story either way. I'm really glad people have found something they are having fun with, something fresh in TW but there are a couple of people in my opinion that are in denial and treating it like it's the second coming for this game. It's simply not going to happen, it's not going to turn the TW population around and bring hundreds of new players to the zone.

[MaGi kOz]

Distension IS an event and has a beginning and an end where one side wins and one side loses (or in the event of a stalemate, a tie breaker is played). It's technically a basing event with a flagging event in between. What people seem to love the most is being able to upgrade their ship and see what they can accomplish.

So the idea is: Expand the map. The open and expanded map, like elim and tourny are, will be open for entry for people to play soccer, duel it out in their newly customized ship (Customization is one of the best thing a person can look for in any product, btw, which is why the Scion and 94 Honda Civics are one of the two most popular vehicles because of their customization).

Then every now and then, a host can come in and !startbase game if requested OR it can be automated when a certain amount of people enter the game.

Basically, people being able to upgrade their ships is the MAIN thing I think people are in distension for. I know that some people will be concerned of it going stale... i really have no solution for that =p... Distension is just a new way of playing this game. You can combine that with other events in TW to make more ways to play . Imagine Distension elims of players amongst the same ranks. ah?

Anyways, i'm in a hurry so this was written pretty quick.

[Imperian]

I both support and not support distension.

I will not expand.

[roxxkatt]

Anyone notice a trend?? Maybe how the people for distension are the ONLY ones who have tried it and given it a chance? Or how about the only people strictly agaisnt it are ones who either haven't played it or refuse to play it.

this

?chat=distblows - its a chat where ignorant ppl go to whine about stuff theyve never tried

and this

[Imperian]

I'm expanding... B)

I'd say set up another arena for distension so people wouldn't have to wait in queues. ?go distension2 anyone?

Queues are very bad in any game and should be discouraged. They make people frustrated and angry and that makes them temporarily quit what they are doing that is making them so frustrated. Get my meaning?

I'd say before you make distension 24/7, get rid of it altogether, or do some lame BS, make another arena for it and see how it works out.

For me, distension is fun because it is balanced. I can kill a level 40 wb even if i'm level 1. That makes it fair and once you've leveled up it's fun for a while.

I enjoy distension, but i don't think it's the future of TW. For one thing, it takes no skill whatsoever. At least in pub you know what you get it and what the other enemy has, but in distension you just randomly die because some spider got super and you can't do 'nothin about it except get shields... uGH. It takes no skill to be a nerd.

Distension, however, has become more than an event. It's the nature of distension for it to be something more. However, my suggestion is to keep it running only from 4-7 pm on weekdays, and not at all on weekends.

Thing is, the time spent on distension has to be limited.
Now, i enjoy distension very much, but it has to be kept in check, or all you'll have is nerds with level 80 ships running around and killing people without any skill whatsoever.

HOWEVER, if some genius thinks of a way to make it so distension advertises TWD and TWL, (making arena inside of the arena where people can do 4v4 with distension style ships, w/e), or other events, that's great.

For now, my view on distention is to limit it to maybe 3-6 hrs per day and see how that works out - but somehow i have a premonition of distension not turning out so great in the long run :/

EDIT: i like writing essays STFU.

[Epinephrine]

This isn't about me caring about you playing TWL Dank, this is about turning this zone away from the way it was supposed to be played. Don't you understand when you look at the list of players who support/oppose Distension that the older players who have spent so many years on this game are the ones who don't want it to be on all the time? Distension should be its own zone, if that takes away 60-70 people out of Trench Wars that is fine so be it.

However you do know that eventually people will stop wanting to play Distension because it doesn't have the permanent hold that being a part of TWL/TWD has on it. You don't care about TWL because you aren't competitive, I mean what your saying is.. you could go play maple story and just enjoy the beautiful scenery instead of leveling up your character. Games are made for a specific reason, with a specific idea, and when players started playing Trench Wars because they liked the simplistic idea of the zone to have generally one ship settings starting with being a pubber to being a pro TWL player is why they kept playing. Basically by wanting Distension more you are changing the idea of what TW is about. It is very very easy to say "screw twl/twd not everyone wants to be competitive" but it is just as easy for me to say "twl/twd is going to be less competitive if people think Distension is the most cool event in TW"

And vehicle you are partially right, Distension will eventually die down and become less popular. But the fact that these Distension freaks don't see the obvious of "if its hosted 24/7 its going to become bland even quicker" they think that it will never not be fun. That is sorta what makes me think that they don't understand the mechanics of this game, or any games in general. By cutting down on Distension to 30 hours a week (which is still too much, it needs to be 20 or so) at least staff is admitting there was a problem with how much it was hosted, and are taking steps to make sure that there is a better balance in this game for the people who Hate distension and go afk when it is on, and the people who only go unafk while distension is on. Anyways that is why it is so important that we talk about this Distension thing, because while its creators and supporters motives might be pure, they also don't understand what happens when you over host something very popular. Like I read earlier, kids eating chocolate.

I'm agreeing with Wark yet again! He's hit all the right points.

Personally, I don't have any specifically against it, but I think the fact is that if people want to run such a complicated event 24/7, it's a bad idea.

The fact is, distension is an enormously complicated game which turns aways all but the most dedicated players. Sure there are a lot of dedicated players now, but eventually that will die down.

Much more simpler events like ?go warzone (remember when that was all the rage 7-8 years ago?) have came and went even though they were massively, massively popular for months. One of the main reasons of decline of these events was the fact that they were hosted ALL THE TIME. This is the same as automated tourney, ww3, ufc, deathmatch and even zombies which were so overhosted that eventually they died until they returned as niche and infrequently hosted events.

I've always been an advocate of not hosting special events 24/7. Anytime you have a special event, it should be special. Anytime you have a special event that involves rankings, and ?buying of powerups which affect how good your ship is, you should remember that the longer these things run, the less people will play as it's almost impossible for the new person to catch up. Whether this is ACTUALLY true or not, that is the impression new players will get, and thus it is detrimental to the event.

[Liquid Blue]

ding ding ding

[kthx]

When these guys agree with me, you KNOW im right.

[MaGi kOz]

soooooo running distension is ok, then? as long as it's not 24/7?

soooooooo where's the argument again?

[DankNuggets]

I'm agreeing with Wark yet again! He's hit all the right points.

Personally, I don't have any specifically against it, but I think the fact is that if people want to run such a complicated event 24/7, it's a bad idea.

The fact is, distension is an enormously complicated game which turns aways all but the most dedicated players. Sure there are a lot of dedicated players now, but eventually that will die down.

i'll reply to this first, as it seems you have the most forum clout--

do you not agree that Continuum is a very complicated game in general? There's no instruction booklet, there's no tutorial. The help ticker shows random commands and trinkets of information, but newbs don't see it. There's nothing to teach of other arenas, how to play events. It's not easy to learn, even though it's extremely easy to play.

What about fucking FIFA 2009 or Madden? Are these not incredibly complicated games with really complicated controls??? They are. In fact, they routinely switch up the controls each time a new version comes out, or it switches platforms.

Does that stop anyone form playing these games altogether? NO. Yeah, starting up in TW is one of the hardest things to do on your own, and we've agreed for a long time now that the easiest way to start up is have a friend walk you through it.

Now why would you assume that distension would be any different? It's just like continuum when you first play-- there's a F1, a website, and !help commands -- just like normal TW. There's moderators and players to help you with your questions.

The only thing holding YOU or anyone else back is your dislike for learning new things. It's the same reason people don't play TW in the first place. If you make an effort to learn how to play it, it won't take you long at all. Since skill isn't the only factor determining how well you do, you don't have to build up a skill base in order to do well, you just have to put in enough effort to learn the commands. It's no different than wanting to be a captain, to start a duel, or use any other bot.

Seriously just replace "distension" with "trench wars" or "continuum" in your argument up there.

Much more simpler events like ?go warzone (remember when that was all the rage 7-8 years ago?) have came and went even though they were massively, massively popular for months. One of the main reasons of decline of these events was the fact that they were hosted ALL THE TIME. This is the same as automated tourney, ww3, ufc, deathmatch and even zombies which were so overhosted that eventually they died until they returned as niche and infrequently hosted events.

I've always been an advocate of not hosting special events 24/7. Anytime you have a special event, it should be special. Anytime you have a special event that involves rankings, and ?buying of powerups which affect how good your ship is, you should remember that the longer these things run, the less people will play as it's almost impossible for the new person to catch up. Whether this is ACTUALLY true or not, that is the impression new players will get, and thus it is detrimental to the event.

Why would you compare it to warzone? First off, I'd like to say that pretty much any comparisons are just grasping at straws, because distension IS new and there's nothing like it, now or before. Also, don't compare TW of 8 yrs ago to TW of today, mistake #2. It's obviously a different game today than it was 8 yrs ago. I didn't play then, but I've played for 3 yrs now, and it's changed since when I started...

Zombies and Hunt are overhosted now-- and people still play them, and they still request them. Guess what, they get dismal #'s to show. Distension has been on FOR A FRIGGIN' YEAR ALREADY. You didn't have to be invited before November, I've been playing it for a year, as have many others. I've already said in another post why it's no where near the same as your average event, but I don't expect you to be able to know that WITHOUT ACTUALLY PLAYING IT.

You seem to forget that purepub is just as much of an event in the way you guys are describing distension as an event. Guess what, you can go into safes and ?buy upgrades to your ship... so enough off with "pub is completely level for all". A jav with 3 rockets is more powerful than someone just spawning, an LT who buys ports, bursts, and reps every few minutes... they exist in pub just as in distension. Elim is a 24/7 event that runs off of rankings... once again for some reason you think it will be ok, but distension will fail.

one more thing IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE FOR A NEW PERSON TO CATCH UP.

QUIT HATING ON THE GAME YOU YOURSELF ARE UNWILILNG TO TRY. YOU'RE ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION, BUT IT AIN'T WORTH SHIT IF YOU BASE IT ON BULLSHIT.

[DankNuggets]

That's good to hear, from the two or three topics I've read about Distension, a number of people are really harping about how it's going to save the zone and should become pub standard, which I think is inherently wrong.



I can say and will say whatever I have on my mind about pub- I've played it in particular for far too many hours. I'm not knocking your Distension game chill out, I'm simply saying it doesn't need to become the new pub. It's a new event and people are desperately trying to find new forms of enjoyment out of this game, so they latch onto Distension. I'm sure the game is a blast chief, I just don't think it should be pub 24/7.

If it's detracting enough players where you have 30 people sitting in spec, it's obvious that the other events/arenas are going to suffer- elim, TWL, pub. The zone has a low enough population as it is that it doesn't need to have 30+ players just sitting in spec watching when they could be filling other portions of the zone. I never gave a time limit, but on the flip side I don't see why you can't have a schedule like Vehicle has been suggesting. It doesn't need to be going 24/7, otherwise it will get old, and get old fast.

And before I get any further, let me define what I mean by fast. Subspace came out in 96, 97? This game has been running for 11 or 12 years, so it's been here for awhile. It slowed down around 2001/2002, and has been on the decline ever since. When I say it will get old fast, I mean that I personally think Distension; if it was made the pub standard, would entertain players for a few months, at best. The problem with those few months, is that the players who didn't like Distension, who didn't want it to become the pub main, would find other stuff to do. Be it other videogames, life "outside", college, friends, whatever- they would find something else to take up their time. If Distension burned out after a few months and the zone tried to go back to pub, some of the old players would return, but alot wouldn't. The game is fun to return to every now and then but if you go a year or so without playing it you won't ever really feel the need to go back. There's just so much more to do.

To make sure this doesn't become a block of text, Distension as the pub main could easily speed up the death of TW rather than prevent it. That's what I meant. And yes I believe it will get old fast because it's fresh and exciting, it's not the same old elim or pub that people have wasted hundreds of hours in. But it's going to lose that "new" shine eventually, and that will only happen faster if it's made accessible 24/7. I understand what you're trying to say about the length of time (I guess since I mentioned zombies you think I'm trying to give you guys time limits?) but it's the same story either way. I'm really glad people have found something they are having fun with, something fresh in TW but there are a couple of people in my opinion that are in denial and treating it like it's the second coming for this game. It's simply not going to happen, it's not going to turn the TW population around and bring hundreds of new players to the zone.

OK, we agree it shouldn't be the main pub. I full-heatedly agree. But what's wrong with leaving it open 24/7 just like a pub, but not starting people in it? That's the argument I want to hear. No one's come up with a convincing one yet.

I'm begining to think that they're not going to though, unless they actually play the game. I say this because literally every misconception I've been addressing in the past few days wouldn't have even existed if the person had played the game before.

and FTR, while I don't like that there's 40 ppl in spec, count up the # of people speccing elims, tourny's, dd's, events, and TWL and see if it's the same as distension. I'm guessing it is, just spread out over several other arenas. I'd like them to be able to play instead of spec, but it's not so damn unreasonable-- it's the norm in arenas like Elim and Tourny, even in the pubs some times.

I really don't think it's going to loose interest as quickly as you propose. Sure in a year it might suffer, but that's why it's important to let it thrive now, so as many people can get introduced to it as they'd like. Leave it open for people to try, without having to fight the 80 ppl that try to play during the limited hours of operation. Like I've said before, it's been running over a year already... and it's only showing signs of growing the more it's offered.

[Epinephrine]

i'll reply to this first, as it seems you have the most forum clout--

do you not agree that Continuum is a very complicated game in general? There's no instruction booklet, there's no tutorial. The help ticker shows random commands and trinkets of information, but newbs don't see it. There's nothing to teach of other arenas, how to play events. It's not easy to learn, even though it's extremely easy to play.

It's complicated, but then again it's very simple. One of the main reasons why TW has been the most successful zone in SS is because it is by far the most simple of all zones.

Now why would you assume that distension would be any different? It's just like continuum when you first play-- there's a F1, a website, and !help commands -- just like normal TW. There's moderators and players to help you with your questions.

People play TW because it's TW. Not because it's called Distension. While people within TW might like it, not everyone does, and if you run it all the time, or even want to make distension pub (As some have suggested in this thread) you will be permanently alienating a lot of people who will never come back.

The only thing holding YOU or anyone else back is your dislike for learning new things. It's the same reason people don't play TW in the first place.

This is entirely correct.

The other day I wanted to play some TW, but pub was empty. Then I wanted to go to elim, and elim was empty. Then I said maybe I'll do some ?go base, but that was empty. The only thing that WASN'T empty was distension. Then I realized I had to read like 10 pages of text to figure out how to play it... so I went to Chaos SVS and had a good time for 2 hours.

If you're alienating people from TW with this game, you will hurt the player base. Eventually, all those people who don't care for Distension will stop coming back, and then once people start not playing Distension, the zone will die.

Why would you compare it to warzone? First off, I'd like to say that pretty much any comparisons are just grasping at straws, because distension IS new and there's nothing like it, now or before. Also, don't compare TW of 8 yrs ago to TW of today, mistake #2. It's obviously a different game today than it was 8 yrs ago. I didn't play then, but I've played for 3 yrs now, and it's changed since when I started...

Distention is a game with a purpose. Pub is a game with no purpose. One of the strongest things about SS as a game that has been continuous for so many years is, in general it's a game with NO PURPOSE. Yes there is a base in pub, but really I think 90% of the time I've ever played pub, I've just randomly killed people, and this is true for 1/2 the people who play pub. It's a mindless distraction.

And then playing events is something you do when you have more free time and want to do something cooler.

Making events the sole focus of the arena (even if distension isn't made pub, it's still eating up all the 'free' players right now) basically makes it impossible for anyone who just wants some mindless action to have a good time, and so they will stop coming back. You destroy your own population base for the interests of a few hard core (and hard core CURRENTLY) people. That's not a good idea.

Zombies and Hunt are overhosted now-- and people still play them, and they still request them. Guess what, they get dismal #'s to show.

So your point is, zombies and hunt are overhosted and they get dismal amounts of people to show up for it? That kind of proves MY point doesn't it?

You seem to forget that purepub is just as much of an event in the way you guys are describing distension as an event. Guess what, you can go into safes and ?buy upgrades to your ship... so enough off with "pub is completely level for all". A jav with 3 rockets is more powerful than someone just spawning, an LT who buys ports, bursts, and reps every few minutes... they exist in pub just as in distension. Elim is a 24/7 event that runs off of rankings... once again for some reason you think it will be ok, but distension will fail.

Elim and purepub both require almost no interaction from the player. I can just as easily snipe random people and do nothing in purepub than actually base. In Distension, since you need to buy powerups and there's actually a point to the game, it's much harder to just screw around and have fun as no one else is going to play that game with you.