TWL Season 14 Announcements

[curse]

1920 / 1280 = 1.5

the person whos using 1920x1080 resolution has 50% more time to dodge a radar horizontal warbird shot than a person who uses 1280x1024

Do we really need statistics?

But aim is 50 percentless.....


I find aiming at people more frustrating and I have to just wait a long time before I can kill my prey. Higher res IMO isn't much different then lower res..... summa just increase the res already.
I'm also buying a new computer and giving vys a new laptop that has 1368 by 700 res so just make high res the norm for Twd and twl.

[kthx]

Curse, do you realize you contradicted yourself in the first line?

[Ricko]

i hope thats not rasaq hinting that he's going to attempt to captain a squad.

[Creature]

Let me respond to a few things here since no one has come to defense of raising the resolution.

In terms of eliminating rushing. This is argument is a joke to me. Does it destroy the horizontal axis "surprise" rush; yes it does. Vertical axis rushes are still as effective, and people who fire, miss, and are low energy are just as susceptible to a rush regardless of resolution.

False, it does affect the quality of rushing.

The reason why a "surprise" rush is successful is almost 100% due to successful positioning. The reason why any GOOD veteran dies is because they are facing the WRONG direction when the other rusher pops up onto the screen. Resolution increase will basically eliminate the horizontal axises for sure and if u let the vertical cap be changed it's going to eliminate that factor of surprise. The reason good players don't die to rushes is because they are constantly checking radar to make sure their ship is positioned in a way that if someone surprises them they are facing the right direction and vice versa for good rushers (let's not even use rusher here, use surprise attacker) being successful is because of a high level of awareness required to identify the people who are facing the wrong direction and capitalize on those mistakes. If you increase resolution limits, it's giving everyone more vision and you can see what direction ships are facing so this entire element of "rushing" will be decreased...it won't be "eliminated' but it's effectiveness is going to significantly suffer.

The energy argument is bullshit - it's not because of low energy people die to rushes, any good wb with a solid understanding of energy recovery fundamentals knows that if you don't do anything from the moment an enemy appears on the edge of a 1280x1024 radar screen you will have enough energy to be able to get a shot off ASSUMING ur facing the right direction. The reason why they die is because they are caught in few seconds when they aren't moving and the time needed to accelerate to full speed isn't enough time for them to dodge the incoming rusher in time. Increasing resolution makes it WAY WAY easier to see someone coming at you in time to start moving to dodge an incoming shot.

YOU DONT DIE BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE ENERGY YOU DIE BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT IN THE OPTIMAL POSITION / DIRECTION TO DODGE A BULLET.

Someone said something about people with larger res being able to see more on radar. Also false, in fact this is the biggest hindrance to 1920x1080. Unless the magnification of the radar is changed in the .lvz, you will always see 2000x2000 on your radar. In effect this distorts the proportion of your radar for those who are used to playing 4:3 aspect resolutions.

This argument has 0 credibility.

Who needs to look at a radar when you practically see the entire radar on your screen? Any good player will adjust to the distorted proportion of the radar anyways....it's not even a good representation anyways right now (radar = square, screen = rectangle). Don't even start the argument that higher res = smaller ship = harder to aim close ---again, any good wb will adjust.

I also think it "destroying the league" is hyperbole. As I stated, there are maybe 4 or 5 ppl who I would consider TWL starters who are using the increased resolution. In some senses it would "re-invent" warbird play more so than it would destroy the league. Rather than allow current practice to dominate, it would force people to learn a new set of skills.

Like I said, I have not made up my mind; but beyond the testimony of wb veterans and an understanding of fractions of a second more to react, I have little hard evidence against raising the res.

Listen to the vets

I'm telling you it will significantly affect the game even if the changes aren't that big - you simply (no offense) don't understanding wbing at HIGH level competitive play enough to make this judgment call. I really like kthx's argument that it's impossible to get "hard evidence" in terms of statistics...it's simply impossible (different players, different game, different lag, TOO MANY variables).

GOOD WBs - please confirm for Summa that my arguments are correct, I know you guys understand energy and positioning and good positioning is honestly what separates "good" players from "TWL" players

[Displaced]

and to reiterate, you are basing it without ever having tried it..

which just nullifies every point you made.

[Vys]

After a year or so of all arenas changing to high resolution, all aspects of warbird will be gone. It will be like the old days where the best warbird in the zone is someone who has maxed out resolution and decent mid-range.
Look at banzi for instance, he was unstoppable on max resolution, once it got capped, he wasn't the player he was.
With the cap in place, it keeps all players on the same playing field. Someone who can see more of the game has a clear advantage over someone who can't. We don't need evidence, it's just common knowledge.
We haven't seen the full offect of this change yet, but the new generation will soon be adapting to the max resolution and they'll realise that if they run snipe/mid-range and they'll get the best scores: this will be so boring to watch, do we seriously want to watch 10 t0mas be petrified of their own shadows in twl?

[Jones]

False, it does affect the quality of rushing.

The reason why a "surprise" rush is successful is almost 100% due to successful positioning. The reason why any GOOD veteran dies is because they are facing the WRONG direction when the other rusher pops up onto the screen. Resolution increase will basically eliminate the horizontal axises for sure and if u let the vertical cap be changed it's going to eliminate that factor of surprise. The reason good players don't die to rushes is because they are constantly checking radar to make sure their ship is positioned in a way that if someone surprises them they are facing the right direction and vice versa for good rushers (let's not even use rusher here, use surprise attacker) being successful is because of a high level of awareness required to identify the people who are facing the wrong direction and capitalize on those mistakes. If you increase resolution limits, it's giving everyone more vision and you can see what direction ships are facing so this entire element of "rushing" will be decreased...it won't be "eliminated' but it's effectiveness is going to significantly suffer.

The energy argument is bullshit - it's not because of low energy people die to rushes, any good wb with a solid understanding of energy recovery fundamentals knows that if you don't do anything from the moment an enemy appears on the edge of a 1280x1024 radar screen you will have enough energy to be able to get a shot off ASSUMING ur facing the right direction. The reason why they die is because they are caught in few seconds when they aren't moving and the time needed to accelerate to full speed isn't enough time for them to dodge the incoming rusher in time. Increasing resolution makes it WAY WAY easier to see someone coming at you in time to start moving to dodge an incoming shot.

YOU DONT DIE BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE ENERGY YOU DIE BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT IN THE OPTIMAL POSITION / DIRECTION TO DODGE A BULLET.



This argument has 0 credibility.

Who needs to look at a radar when you practically see the entire radar on your screen? Any good player will adjust to the distorted proportion of the radar anyways....it's not even a good representation anyways right now (radar = square, screen = rectangle). Don't even start the argument that higher res = smaller ship = harder to aim close ---again, any good wb will adjust.



Listen to the vets

I'm telling you it will significantly affect the game even if the changes aren't that big - you simply (no offense) don't understanding wbing at HIGH level competitive play enough to make this judgment call. I really like kthx's argument that it's impossible to get "hard evidence" in terms of statistics...it's simply impossible (different players, different game, different lag, TOO MANY variables).

GOOD WBs - please confirm for Summa that my arguments are correct, I know you guys understand energy and positioning and good positioning is honestly what separates "good" players from "TWL" players

I support this 100%

Banzi was amazing even on 1280x1024

It took me approximately 1.7 seconds to understand this as I messed around in elim with 1680x1050, I wonder how much longer I can survive with 1920x1440 in a league game where staying alive is a top priority.

Anyone with a few TWL experiences understand that the gameplay is vastly different to TWD and TWDT, it's about staying alive, eliminating opponents, positioning, protecting, radarbattles are the most common, while in TWD it's basically a 4v4 rush. 5 years ago, Epinephrine convinced me 3-0 was way better than 10-5 in a leaguegame, he knows what he is talking about, everybody knows that. Anyone knows bigger res = more time to dodge, I used to play on 1024x768, the moment I changed to 1280x1024 over the months I got adjusted my stats became vastly more consistent.

Question: IF the majority of top warbirds do not use anything higher than 1280x1024, shouldn't the res then just stay at that? What purpose is there to allow for higher resolution when most players are using 1280?

[kthx]

I think Creature and Jones pretty much finished nailing this argument closed. I also agree with Creature.

[Vys]

I'm not saying banzi wasn't good on 1280x1024 resolution. I mean that he was in a different league on much higher resolution but when the cap was put in place, he wasn't as dominant as he was on higher resolution.
That was my way of explaining that high resolution plays a big part in the skill level.
Like me for instance, I did a downgrade in resolution and I'm not the player I was on 1280x1024 resolution. I haven't lost the skill I've got it's just tough to compete against players who can see me on screen/radar. It's just like throwing stevie wonder into a warzone against some snipers, he has no chance.

[Vys]

Sorry for the double post, but if I personally had big resolution, I wouldn't waste my time playing in trenchwars. I would play svs chaos zone, where the staff are much better and the bot work on the ASSS server is just incredible.
That's why trenchwars is so unique, people play this zone because of the resolution cap. It keeps the game fair, I think it was specifically for warbird because of the one shot one kill play. Because of the speed of the bullet it brings in all aspects of the ship; rushing, mid-range, sniping.
And there's no way of getting your evidence summa. Unless you get someone like raspi or ease who can play all aspects of warbird and to duel each other. Both trying out high resolution and then both trying out normal resolution. And then you could try one playing on high resolution and one not and then switch around. Just an idea.

[Mythril]

is there going to be a minimum amount of games played requirement to qualify for twl? would be kind of lame for some squad to be fucked over because a squad made 5 days before qualifications took their spot. create an urgency for any new squad to be started now. and pene axe some of your fuckin players now so accuracy can get some. even if you do make twld, you gotta axe 17 people. help out the zone and do it asap

[Summa]

and to reiterate, you are basing it without ever having tried it..

which just nullifies every point you made.

I am just going to retort with the above.

Out of those who have tried both resolutions, I have an equal amount of testimonies saying "it has made no difference" as I do saying "I am a god of wb". And for both sides I question the motivations as most of these people have sought me out rather than me seeking them out.

I will say this much about the statistics I have been looking at...seeing how no one else seems to be looking at them.

On average a person playing with 1600 or higher resolution averages approx. 1 more R3 kill a game.

In games where both teams have multiple players at 1600 or higher resolution there is a large spike in the R2 kills. In these types of games, both teams seem to show a lack of desire to rush, however...

In games where one team has players using 1600 or higher resolution there is almost no notable difference from other games. Perhaps 1 or 2 more R2 kills avg'd. Rushing is still commonplace.

As of now, nothing is changing in TWLD. I fear for the activity if I raise the resolution, and I am starting to see some statistical question marks. However, I will still maintain my stance that based on our statistical evidence, resolution does not make a SIGNIFICANT difference. Although it may yield a tiny advantage in some regards. However, when two teams both using larger resolutions compete, it does tend to change the nature of the gameplay.

Unless I run into something new or significant...I probably won't be changing it. However, if you guys actually do decide to sift through statistics instead of offering baseless conjecture (on some accounts), please do tell me as it would probably be the nail in the coffin.

I will post here again if there are any updates regarding TWL or any new developments in this decision.

[Summa]

is there going to be a minimum amount of games played requirement to qualify for twl? would be kind of lame for some squad to be fucked over because a squad made 5 days before qualifications took their spot. create an urgency for any new squad to be started now. and pene axe some of your fuckin players now so accuracy can get some. even if you do make twld, you gotta axe 17 people. help out the zone and do it asap

The minimums are the same as they have been for years.

30 matches for LD and LJ

25 matches of LB

[kthx]

Well I mean lack of evidence and conjecture aside, you made the correct decision seeing as how there are what 9 people using higher resolutions and they shouldn't be catered to when it is obvious that a very very large majority of warbirds who have been playing for 5-10 years don't want it changed and/or don't have the ability to raise it.

[Ricko]

noone cares if its a significant advantage, a 0.2% advantage to someone with a bigger res is still unfair as an advantage is an advantage none the less, it should be equal playing fields.