100 Top Javs

[Jones]

it's a waste of time to compare old vs. new, so it becomes an arguement of opinions- as the story goes, everyone has one

my opinion on the best lineup is the shriek lineup from season 7. merce, cape, annul, mess, ruine if i remember correctly. too bad they got banned

also, Real was a good squad (biased, i know). unfortunately we played bad in ld finals and choked in lj finals (via's straybomb tking two)

[paradise!]

I can without hesitation say Ease is probably the greatest jav to ever play (I played with merce during his prime). I had my chance to play fireballz and a few of the other greats, but they each had their weaknesses. The only way to kill Ease is to bomb in a way that you yourself would not expect to shoot. I mean that with 100% seriousness. But, Ease's flaw is that he's universally known as a douche bag. I would put Merce and Fieryfire in the top 10 javs all time, and they were much more pleasant people. They were always willing to give tips, join some lower-ranked squads, and spend time helping out people who weren't in their upper echelon of javs. Merce took me under his wing in i>u, and I learned how to play as an aggressive from him. I re-learned my jav style from FF a few years after that. You could never say the same about Ease. Worst squad I've seen Ease on was Freebie. Never seen him join even a mediocre squad. He even went as far as to seriously beef me for simply saying that he's always overrecruiting the best javs in the zone from the already limited pool of players, and for still being bitter about losing LD against fierce 3 seasons ago. Funny because in my 13+ years playing this game, the only person I've seen Fieryfire have a problem with is Ease.

I've always known Ease to treat this game as a business. Probably the greatest jav ever, but probably one of the most irrationally competitive and overly serious players out there. Think he has the most individual rings in the history of TWL, and this will never be enough for him to be a pleasant human being.

Zidane on Zidane


Good example of how much this kid has his head up his ass. Started playing in 2005 (post TW golden age) has kicked around on over 118 previous squads ( far less with multiples). First LJ title season 12, as a thunder bencher, not included on the roster. Additional titles with Pandora over the last two seasons when competition was at an all time low. Curb stomped in game for years. Generally considered a joke. Claim to fame the line "suh suh g" and acting like a 13 year old.

Current goal for TWL season 19 help revive Thunder and claim the competition is out of this world (when less then 30 players - a squad have more then ten games played in jd).

i cant BREATHE

yo...Zid puts this game before friends. drafts me in 44th round in complete insulting fashion over Kira_YamaYoyo~~** and Zazerickay or something.

also, i think it was pretty well known that revenge, value, and juans had absolutely no chance at winning lj. to even say that had a real shot is pathetic. Yeah man Scarfaze was going to lead Juans to their first lj title over Ease, Rough, Amputate, Turban, Evildeed, Fludd, Children, Cape, etc.? LOL...stfu

[zidane]

half of those people weren't on our squad this season... and we beat juans by about 5 kills total in playoffs. you sound bitter about something, not sure what

[kess]

I can without hesitation say Ease is probably the greatest jav to ever play (I played with merce during his prime)

2006 wasnt merce's prime, that was during 2004 and 2005, with shriek mostly and a bit dice. and prime merce was definetly one of the very few javs id put over ease.

[Ricko]

Dont forget Value had Pandora beaten (maybe) had Turban not had those eats/lag at the clutch stage of the match last season

[Rough]

it's a waste of time to compare old vs. new, so it becomes an arguement of opinions- as the story goes, everyone has one

my opinion on the best lineup is the shriek lineup from season 7. merce, cape, annul, mess, ruine if i remember correctly. too bad they got banned

also, Real was a good squad (biased, i know). unfortunately we played bad in ld finals and choked in lj finals (via's straybomb tking two)

I don't know about that...Syndicate beat Shriek early in that season before they were disqualified or removed from TWL I think.

The best line I ever saw was Demonfaze, Amputate, Fireballz, Merce, and myself then 2nd season replace Merce and add Psymorph. That is one scary line because we ran through squads like it was nothing.

The "newer generation" Children, Ease, Amp, Zid, Myself had to be one of the best lines in LJ even though we did not do it in dominate fashion at all. And for the record, Child/Ease joined Pandora once he saw myself/amp come back and join first...easy.

That's just my opinion tho, biased

[Turban]

first of all, thank you for your efforts despite the list being far from perfect.

there are way too many variables one must consider when making a ranking list of any ship especially when you account the natural bias that every player has in this game. it is impossible to make a perfect list as you have to factor several things, such as the individual talent and skill of a player, their ability to play with the team and making plays for the team, their preferred playing style and ability to adapt to the game pace that is ever-changing, their ability to actually punish mistakes and create opportunities for their team and so forth.

i don't think anyone should be mentioning the past players or their peaks as it is impossible to correctly envaluate their skill with the present players without having hours of video material. however, i do agree that the squad dynamics have changed quite drastically in the past couple of years as you don't see as many teams coming up with strategies that require the co-operation of the entire team (such as the (in)famous disoblige bullet rain) to work. you can still see strategies being developed by teams, but it is not quite as common as the amount of squads competing nowadays has dropped by quite a large number compared to the past.

if we went by the present skill and only looked at the individual skill of a player (such as the players ability to make unexpected plays and shots, their positional awareness, how good they are at punishing mistakes, dodging and reaction times and so on) then i would probably rank myself quite high (as egoistical as that may sound) with several players agreeing with that statement, but when you start factoring in the players ability to work with a team to accomplish a certain goal then i would drop myself from the Top 50 in a heartbeat as i see myself as an individual solo player. it all depends on the kind of list you are trying to make and how you value different aspects of the players. i'm mostly known as a player that is lagging way too much and most players probably can't see past that, but there isn't much you can do about it anyways; once you have a certain kind of reputation it will stick like glue until you decide to quit the game.

i do find it quite humorous at how you discredit the talents of several players because of their higher than usual latency, and then decide to mention players such as Sika, Psymorph and Blood who all have/had similar lag than some of the aforementioned players that you decided to bash in your initial post. nevertheless, it is good for the health of the zone as any kind of drama brings more life to the forums and creates conflicts / more rivalry. everyone is biased, you and me included, and that's how it is meant to be.

[Turban]

Dont forget Value had Pandora beaten (maybe) had Turban not had those eats/lag at the clutch stage of the match last season

ah well, it all depends on how one views the situation at hand.

i didn't eat any bombs on my screen and saw all of the bombs, however it is quite possible that my opponents were having a hard time timing their bombs and angles resulting in several misses that might not have happened if i had lower ping. shit happens, but you have to remember that i wasn't the only player with lag issues in the semi-finals (amnesti and dreamwin, among some others, had similar or worse lag) and that is something worth mentioning. if i did not perform in the semi-finals then no one would have mentioned me and my lag in any of their posts and would have probably decided to target someone else instead.

last season had three teams with realistic chance of winning the tournament with one extra team having a small chance of causing an upset victory. that is a good number as in the past there has always been at most only four contenders in javelin with rest being huge underdogs.

don't live in the past.

[paradise!]

half of those people weren't on our squad this season... and we beat juans by about 5 kills total in playoffs. you sound bitter about something, not sure what

relax..not bitter. sorry if it comes off as bitter.

[kess]

turb u know im cool with you, but i saw those semis vs value, and that was the most ridiculous lag ive seen in twl, considering u managed to stay in all game and SOMEHOW staff let u stay in. u easily ate atleast 10 bombs, and im not exagerating. i know that playing laggy is horrible, since i do suffer from it too, and it surely affected u at the time, but im 100% sure ur lag affected value more than it affected u

<3

[Turban]

sorry?

[Rule]

i do find it quite humorous at how you discredit the talents of several players because of their higher than usual latency, and then decide to mention players such as Sika, Psymorph and Blood who all have/had similar lag than some of the aforementioned players that you decided to bash in your initial post. nevertheless, it is good for the health of the zone as any kind of drama brings more life to the forums and creates conflicts / more rivalry.

Psymorph has always had a healthy normal connection. I remember one really brief period (like a decade ago) where he had a little bit of lag.
Blood's connection was more laggy in his later days of playing, never out of this world laggy.
When I played with Sika extensively back in 2000 etc his connection was normal. Later I heard people whining about it.

All 3 of them have been basically retired for 7-8 years, so I doubt you saw much of them when they were active as u started in 05 right?

turb u know im cool with you, but i saw those semis vs value, and that was the most ridiculous lag ive seen in twl, considering u managed to stay in all game and SOMEHOW staff let u stay in. u easily ate atleast 10 bombs, and im not exagerating. i know that playing laggy is horrible, since i do suffer from it too, and it surely affected u at the time, but im 100% sure ur lag affected value more than it affected u

Your connection and lag during the last playoffs (and for many seasons) was an absolute joke. The value game and the subsequent forcing of Maketso to be subbed in finals. Seriously why would anyone want to play in a league where laggots (and useless fgts like Zidane) can force match results by simply crying or using their staff connections to change outcomes. TWL 18 playoffs confirmed that the leagues are in worst shape ever. With the likes of you, Tsunami running things its just the nail in the coffin lol. Just a note for you Turban, I have never been a fan of laggots, so if you feel singled out thats your choice lol. Same deal goes for cheaters. Anything that detracts from the authenticity of legit results and fair games. I wouldn`t include Merce (who was a good jav) for example on any best of jav list as from what I remember he lagged like crazy in twds, twls`etc. Remember it being a big issue where he was forced to sub out, or lagged out.
Memory fails me but I remember Shriek was booted for playoffs for actions of some members who were either cheating or lag issues which was disappointing (but fair result) in some ways as they had a strong squad.

So I guess you folded on your idea of not playing with the same people next season as u stated at end of last season and did the usual thunder/pandora bandwagon (don't need an explanation). Same group of losers going to keep milking a dead TWL. GG!

[Turban]

a three of us have been using the same ISP (and internet speed) and thus have similar kind of latency and spike information. honestly though, it all depends on the style of playing one uses in this game; if you play aggressive, you will appear to be laggier than a defensive player simply because you have to do more subtle movements which may result in more visual eats or faster bombs (as you are moving forward). nevertheless, twl isn't starting for another month and a half, and by the looks if it i won't be on thunder for various different reasons (such as them having way too many TWL operators and too much depth in their roster, combined with players that have no class at all) and will be looking for a decent squad to play in when the time is right.

you may not remember this, but i was forced to be substituted (or was going to be, but i asked myself to be substituted due to routing lag which later affected maketso in the third round) by staff in the finals and you actually start to call that favoritism by staff? utterly hilarious to say the least as what happened was fair and nothing more. everyone, aside from you and a couple of dice members, will agree with that statement. if a player happens to suddenly get an increase of 200ms to their usual lag, they should be asked or forced to be substituted -- that is what was going to happen to me and needed to happen to maketso as well; he was at fault for not preparing himself for something that is quite common for finnish players: routing lag during the weekends.

nevertheless, i've been known as a laggy player throughout the years, even back when i had superb connection being stable at 110ms for three years, and that reputation will stick on my name. when i was playing on an alias, or on infrareds name, no one complained at all about my lag. it all comes down to the name one uses and players take advantage of it by harassing certain players based on their reputation. you consider psymorph, sika and blood to be friends of yours and thus you can't possibly call them laggots even when that is the case. it's the usual bias, turn a blind eye when your friends are having issues, but make sure the world knows when someone you dislike is having problems.

had i been forced to be substituted in the value match, i would have been fine with that. i would have also liked to see dreamwin (on my team) and amnesti to be substituted as they had numerous eats and their spike info was laughable at best.

fact is that maketso had a routing issue causing him to have 350ms for 4 minutes, and staff took that long to force the substitute. if i had been lagging with 350ms in round 1 and allowed to play for 4 minutes, you would have probably written a wall of text about how staff is showing favoritism -- luckily, staff actually wanted to see me substituted immediately, however maketso was given PLENTY of time to fix his issue (which could have been fixed with the use of a proxy or VPN) that he knew happens on a regular basis.

[Turban]

although, this feels like yelling at a wall in hindsight. no matter what i say, or even if i provide you proof, you will not accept it from me. most of the winners in TWLJ (dice, thunder and some others) have used a lineup with at least one player having lag issues in the final series.

the pot is calling the kettle black.

[Rule]

I don't think anyone who has the lag issues you do should be playing in playoffs and championship games which are elimination style. Squad's have enough players and depth that they dont need to rely on laggots. Even ten years ago my opinion was the same. Never been a fan of playing against laggots, or playing with them. Trying to group players who played 5-7 years before you did (don't lag like you - Psymorph really? lol) and were near retirement when you got into league is inaccurate. Sika, blood etc were guys I played against as much as with, I have no reason to big up them. I noticed near end of bloods career he did have ugly lag, but earlier years it was normal. They also played on different servers then the current ones. Authentic results and games matter. Without it the leagues are nothing. Staff cannot change the past but they can improve the future by setting stronger guidelines and implementing them (yes it sucks for those who have lag they can't fix but is the right way to go). One solution would be staff watching laggots throughout TWL (and possibly twd) season and impose playoff bans - giving caps a heads up early if possible that they will have to play a different lineup.