John McCain vs Barack Obama Mega-Politic-Thread of super fun awesomeness.

[kthx]

no it won't, because for every faggot that blames medical bills for their being failures in life there are three people who worked hard and have medical insurance to pay for their hospital visits. And it shows in the polls also, wait till next year when the whole liberal congress is kicked the fuck out once again and we can see the economy getting better under the leadership of competent leadership in congress. Because we all know things started getting bad as soon as the left took office during Bush's presidency.

[Squeezer]

no it won't, because for every faggot that blames medical bills for their being failures in life there are three people who worked hard and have medical insurance to pay for their hospital visits. And it shows in the polls also, wait till next year when the whole liberal congress is kicked the fuck out once again and we can see the economy getting better under the leadership of competent leadership in congress. Because we all know things started getting bad as soon as the left took office during Bush's presidency.

citation please. There are absolutely no facts in what you just wrote.

Health care costs are bankrupting Americans and causing businesses to either pay more for service, or drop it altogether. Don't believe me?

A recent study found that 62 percent of all bankruptcies filed in 2007 were linked to medical expenses. Of those who filed for bankruptcy, nearly 80 percent had health insurance

According to another published article, about 1.5 million families lose their homes to foreclosure every year due to unaffordable medical costs.

National health expenditures are expected to increase faster than the growth in GDP: between 2008 and 2018, the average increase in national health expenditures is expected to be 6.2 percent per year, while the GDP is expected to increase only 4.1 percent per year.

Employees have seen their share of job-based coverage increase at nearly the same rate during this period jumping from $1,543 to $3,354

The cumulative increase in employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have raised at four times the rate of inflation and wage increases during last decade. This increase has made it much more difficult for businesses to continue to provide coverage to their employees and for those workers to afford coverage themselves.

Over the last decade, employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have increased 119 percent.

It's a very real problem, and one that will eventually collapse our economy under the combined weight of private costs, the lack of payers into SS, as well as already providing practically free care to seniors through Medicare/Medicaid. This has nothing to do with Republicans or Democrats. It has to do with honest, hardworking people getting hosed out of the health insurance they already pay out of the ass for.

[kthx]

It all boils down to the fact that we have to support lazy fucks, anyone who works hard can get health insurance, that is a fact. And most emergency rooms can't even report bills to credit agencies, do some research. The problem is the lazy fucks, like with everything.

[Squeezer]

It all boils down to the fact that we have to support lazy fucks, anyone who works hard can get health insurance, that is a fact. And most emergency rooms can't even report bills to credit agencies, do some research. The problem is the lazy fucks, like with everything.

No, the problem is that health insurance companies are finding any way to skimp on already paid coverage, all while raising the amount it costs to afford insurance in the first place.

You make too many god damn assumptions. I have no idea how you could come to that conclusion based on the evidence I presented.

[Summa]

And most emergency rooms can't even report bills to credit agencies, do some research.

you realize you pay these bills right? when a hospital has someone stumble into the ER without health insurance, they treat them. when they can't pay for the bill do you know who pays for it? you. you already pay for socialized medicine, except instead of giving it to everyone so they can get regular checkups and preventative health care measures, you pay exorbitant fees for life saving and emergency operations plus the added on ER costs.

i am sure you may be able to find one example of where government reimbursement of hospitals does not occur and claim that as a precedent for all hospitals like you seem to do with just about everything. so let's examine that case. if a hospital has uninsured people stumble into the ER needing treatment, they cannot turn them away. every uninsured person is numbers in the red for them. this hospital has to make budget, it can't go in the red for very long. what is it going to do? jack prices up on those with insurance. as more and more people become uninsured and are forced into the ER w/o money to pay for these usually extremely costly measures, the hospitals will continue to jack prices up and screw those with health care. and without a roof or some form of regulation stopping them, they will likely screw over a quarter of americans just for their profit margins to remain the same. that's the system i want to live in!

[HateTheFake]

you realize you pay these bills right? when a hospital has someone stumble into the ER without health insurance, they treat them. when they can't pay for the bill do you know who pays for it? you. you already pay for socialized medicine, except instead of giving it to everyone so they can get regular checkups and preventative health care measures, you pay exorbitant fees for life saving and emergency operations plus the added on ER costs.

i am sure you may be able to find one example of where government reimbursement of hospitals does not occur and claim that as a precedent for all hospitals like you seem to do with just about everything. so let's examine that case. if a hospital has uninsured people stumble into the ER needing treatment, they cannot turn them away. every uninsured person is numbers in the red for them. this hospital has to make budget, it can't go in the red for very long. what is it going to do? jack prices up on those with insurance. as more and more people become uninsured and are forced into the ER w/o money to pay for these usually extremely costly measures, the hospitals will continue to jack prices up and screw those with health care. and without a roof or some form of regulation stopping them, they will likely screw over a quarter of americans just for their profit margins to remain the same. that's the system i want to live in!

that maybe so, but im also not wanting to pay for socialized abortion.

[kthx]

Well you can't have it both ways, either hardworking people pay an extra 20 dollars a month in health insurance or we kick out all the illegal immigrants and stop giving people welfare, just let them fucking starve or find a job doing something, it isn't that hard. Besides what is a public healthcare option from the government going to do, you are mad because we already pay higher premiums for uninsured/illegal immigrants, how is tossing up billions upon billions of dollars into a government plan going to solve anything. Are you really that fucking stupid? Maybe the fact that our current administration has our debt up to 9trillion doesn't mean much to you, but anyone who knows economics knows that EVENTUALLY countries are going to stop using the US DOLLAR as the international currency and when that happens, and we can't borrow or buy from any other countries that shit is going to really hit the fan. THERE IS NO INFINITE MONEY, and the government has already ran enough shitty terrible ideas into the ground and lost more than enough money trying to compete with better private companies.

So whats the fucking point, here is the Kthx Health-Care plan: Get a fucking job and instead of putting rims on your Cadillac put money into savings, instead of buying a big screen TV and having a cell phone, put money into savings, instead of being a fucking moron, put some money aside in case you need it later. Instead of investing in a 401k that is basically fucking useless especially to the Baby Boomers PUT MONEY INTO SAVINGS. Seriously it isn't that hard people, all you have to do is take some responsibility for your own actions. You can't afford health care, find a better job, do something with your life, don't expect me to foot the bill because you expect the government to satisfy your every want and need in life, because that isn't what America is about. This is a generation of pussies and whiners who cry about every little thing in their lives and spend all day at Obama rally's instead of finding a real job. Is it really that hard to stop depending on a government, or even other people to do everything in your fucking life and just do it yourself? Life isn't easy, Life isn't fair, sometimes life sucks, you don't need anti-depressants, you don't need government bailouts, you need some common fucking sense to do what needs to be done to get through life.

People wanting the government to control every aspect of their lives are fucking morons, yeah the government will keep us safe (crime rates are rising), lets save for retirement in a market ran by dipshits who just throw around trillions of dollars like they have it (economy is collapsing), lets let anyone buy a house, especially poor minorities otherwise it is racial profiling even though they have a bad credit history (housing market collapses), hey, lets save the environment maaan after getting really fucking high duuude, fuck those huge oil conglomerates that provide this country with millions of jobs and billions if not trillions of dollars in wealth every year. Seriously, you faggots can't have it both ways, you rely in the government to run your entire life and your life turns out so shitty that everyone has to become addicted to drugs to even be happy. Great fucking world we live in here, provided by our government that we let get too big.

[Squeezer]

that maybe so, but im also not wanting to pay for socialized abortion.

uhhh you already do dumbass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood

Planned Parenthood receives about a third of its money in government grants and contracts ($349.6 million in FY 2008).

[kthx]

Oh and how the fuck can a company ran by the government that can NOT go bankrupt seriously be considered in a "Free market" health care plan when private businesses can go bankrupt. What if America offers everyone one dollar a month 100% covered health care plans, all the other companies go out of business, millions of people lose jobs, America goes another two trillion dollars into debt, our best doctors who aren't getting paid by the government fast enough (cash for clunkers anyone?) get tired of the bullshit and go to another country, private practice physicians leave the country because they are being forced to treat people because of the shit long lines of people who have a case of the sniffles, the doctors that are left are corrupted from kickbacks from the pharmaceutical companies who get to give away tons of free medicine on the governments tab. Healthcare in America stops being the best in the world and transforms into a third world at best quality in less than five years, where will Canadians go when they are waiting six months to get an Xray in Canada.

People who are smarter, better, or worked hard to get what they have deserve the benefits of their successes. IE better doctors, not waits, first class on an airplane, and all of the other luxuries that makes being successful worth it.

[D1st0rt]

Companies aren't going bankrupt anymore though, they're taking government funds.

[Regen]

you realize you pay these bills right? when a hospital has someone stumble into the ER without health insurance, they treat them. when they can't pay for the bill do you know who pays for it? you.

Actually they write it off as charity. All of you people are spreading diarrhea all over these walls.

[Ilya]

i hope my insurance will cover my penis repair surgery

[Galleleo]

It's a shame ER ended, was a good show.

[kthx]

Killed this thread with good old fashioned common sense, liberals can't argue against having responsibility and self respect enough to take care of yourself.

[Jerome Scuggs]

yeah the idea that the status quo healthcare industry is in any way a free market is pretty ludicrous

here's what bothers me the most: how will the industry cope with an additional 56mil americans without having to raise costs? how does obama's reform deal with the core economic problem - one of supply and demand - without the facade of price controls?

this won't "contain costs". it will merely put the tab on the government's bill, which doesn't have to be paid back in anyone's lifetime.

here's what gets me the most, though. conceding the fact that companies often do act in their own interest, and conceding that the marketplace is a battlefield of sorts (what consumers are willing to pay versus what producers are willing to charge) - how are costs ever going to go down if healthcare is mandatory? you're basically giving free reign to anyone who runs a healthcare-related industry: don't worry about being efficient, consumers HAVE to buy your product. if insurance industries and the healthcare complex in general were competitive (in the true sense of the word, not what politicians think is competitive), there would be more flexibility in the options available to consumers.

i mean, if i could walk into a hospital, flash my ID, and get a checkup, for free - that would be nice. but i don't think our system would work well with that. probably because our founding fathers designed a system of government that would resist such attempts at federalization, and so you have an ultimately fragmented system of local, state and federal laws. that sort of redundancy pretty much guarantees the bureaucratic breakdown of any sort of national program. bad for people who want free/universal healthcare, good for people who hate fascism.