John McCain vs Barack Obama Mega-Politic-Thread of super fun awesomeness.

[Izor]

What still kills me is that Cops, who claims to be a 'progressive conservative' is hoping that the huge liberal wins over the progressive conservative candidate...hahahaha i love when people just say shit for arguments sake

[castromarx]

That Obama infomercial was the biggest piece of shit ever. Can people seriously watch that and not feel the wool being pulled over their eyes?

BREAKING NEWS!!! THIS JUST IN!!! It doesn't matter who wins when the system is broken.

Your rich will get richer and your poor will get poorer. Your prisons are still going to be black and your white kids are still going to watch NASCAR and say "ain't" and "youse guys". Your crazy neighbour lady with four cats is still going to speak in tongues and fuck that dude she met on craigslist. Celebrity gossip and professional sports franchises will still be the most important things to most people. Corrupt corporations control your country. America will continue to bomb and murder innocent civilians. Dictators will continue to be propped up or overthrown in the name of democracy. Slavery is freedom. Vote Nader?

[Chao.]

I wonder why it's suddenly acceptable to raise taxes on people who make more than 250,000 per year? The "They can take one for the team" argument is bullshit. Being well-off doesn't automatically give the government a pass to leech off someone.

[Liquid Blue]

That Obama infomercial was the biggest piece of shit ever. Can people seriously watch that and not feel the wool being pulled over their eyes?

BREAKING NEWS!!! THIS JUST IN!!! It doesn't matter who wins when the system is broken.

Your rich will get richer and your poor will get poorer. Your prisons are still going to be black and your white kids are still going to watch NASCAR and say "ain't" and "youse guys". Your crazy neighbour lady with four cats is still going to speak in tongues and fuck that dude she met on craigslist. Celebrity gossip and professional sports franchises will still be the most important things to most people. Corrupt corporations control your country. America will continue to bomb and murder innocent civilians. Dictators will continue to be propped up or overthrown in the name of democracy. Slavery is freedom. Vote Nader?

if everyone had your opinion sunshine, nothing would get done

[Squeezer]

I wonder why it's suddenly acceptable to raise taxes on people who make more than 250,000 per year? The "They can take one for the team" argument is bullshit. Being well-off doesn't automatically give the government a pass to leech off someone.

It does when the people whose backs you're riding on each year to make that $250,000 can't afford their houses much less health care.

The rich have had it good in this country for a long time. Reagen and Bush 41 and 43 have made expanded more upper-middle class pockets than a 13-year-old trying to hide his boner. So yes, they can "take one for the team." and give a little of that back.

edit: And fuck that. I pay the same tax rates as many making over $250,000 right now and get almost none of the breaks. I'll be "taking one for the team," my whole life some asshole can stay rich. The least he could do let me see a doctor when I'm sick and help pay for my retirement when I'm too old to move. I'm doing the same for him only I have less to give.

[Chao.]

You say that on the assumption that for one person to prosper, they must be hurting other people, and that's a bold correlation to make.

I get what you're saying here, but I think of it this way: Let's take someone who "rides on the backs of the poor" in your words, like a business owner, and pays them a fairly shitty wage. That may suck for the people he's employing, and it may seem like trying to even everything out via government programs is the answer, but where would those people the business owner is employing be if he had simply not opened said business/shut it down? Unemployed? Without that place or one like it operating they'd have absolutely no income at all. Isn't a shitty job better than being homeless? Fast-Food establishments and the like aren't messiahs by any means, but it's that or nothing for a lot of folks. You can't have jobs without someone creating them, and it's either make-work jobs, or private enterprise. You can try to make a better workplace with regulations- higher minimum wage, benefits, etc., but just laying taxes on the rich isn't the answer.

[Nycle]

edit: And fuck that. I pay the same tax rates as many making over $250,000 right now and get almost none of the breaks. I'll be "taking one for the team," my whole life some asshole can stay rich. The least he could do let me see a doctor when I'm sick and help pay for my retirement when I'm too old to move. I'm doing the same for him only I have less to give.

Just curious, but how does the income tax system in the States work? Just for the sake of a better understanding and comparison, I live in a country with a progressive tax system: the more you earn, the more tax you pay as a percentage of your income above certain thresholds. Rates are as follows:

€ 0 - € 17,579 = 33.6%
€ 17,580 - € 31,589 = 41.85%
€ 31,590 - € 53,860 = 42%
> € 53,860 = 52%

So basically, the strongest shoulders carry the biggest load. I personally support this system from my own personal views, but doubt it would be viable in an American context.

Aside from that, if you earn more than $250,000 dollars a year, after a (small?) raise in taxes you'd still be a rich bitch. So why would you oppose it if you know it could help the less fortunate in society?

[Squeezer]

You say that on the assumption that for one person to prosper, they must be hurting other people, and that's a bold correlation to make.

I get what you're saying here, but I think of it this way: Let's take someone who "rides on the backs of the poor" in your words, like a business owner, and pays them a fairly shitty wage. That may suck for the people he's employing, and it may seem like trying to even everything out via government programs is the answer, but where would those people the business owner is employing be if he had simply not opened said business/shut it down? Unemployed? Without that place or one like it operating they'd have absolutely no income at all. Isn't a shitty job better than being homeless? Fast-Food establishments and the like aren't messiahs by any means, but it's that or nothing for a lot of folks. You can't have jobs without someone creating them, and it's either make-work jobs, or private enterprise. You can try to make a better workplace with regulations- higher minimum wage, benefits, etc., but just laying taxes on the rich isn't the answer.

I agree that there need to be workers just as there need to be employers with jobs ready to offer but I think both need to recognize the necessity of others. That's something that is fundamentally wrong with this country right now. When workers make "demands" for honest pay and simple benefits, US businesses take their workforce elsewhere. How is that fair to workers?

Major American manufacturers have been getting away with tactics like this for years. Those making $250,000 knew about these shady practices and did them anyway (hence one of the reasons why we have an oil, stock, and housing crisis right now)

[Squeezer]

Just curious, but how does the income tax system in the States work? Just for the sake of better understanding and comparison, I live in a country with a progressive tax system: the more you earn, the more tax you pay as a percentage of your income above certain thresholds. Rates are as follows:

€ 0 - € 17,579 = 33.6%
€ 17,580 - € 31,589 = 41.85%
€ 31,590 - € 53,860 = 42%
> € 53,860 = 52%

So basically, the strongest shoulders carry the biggest load. I personally support this system from my own personal views, but doubt it would be viable in an American context.

Aside from that, if you earn more than $250,000 dollars a year, after a (small?) raise in taxes you'd still be a rich bitch. So why would you oppose it if you know it could help the less fortunate in society?

Here's the breakdown of Income tax in the US. Technically people making much more than I do also pay much more than I do. However when you consider both of our total incomes before Tax, of course he's going to be much more left over than I'd sing a little different tune.

edit: I'm also employed by my school. I'm sure if I were self-employed and had to pay capital gains/corporate/estate tax on top of my state and federal income taxes.

edit2: forgot the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_..._United_States

[Nycle]

Oh wtf, I'm embarassed to have always thought that the US had some kind of flat tax system or something.

Edit: Nice brackets and rates though.

[Jeenyuss]

here is how i am going to decide who i want to win the election:

who are heavensent, pearl jam, castromarx (if he were american), money, and rudy (if he were american) voting for?

[castromarx]

conc/pj is my ticket.

[Cops]

What still kills me is that Cops, who claims to be a 'progressive conservative' is hoping that the huge liberal wins over the progressive conservative candidate...hahahaha i love when people just say shit for arguments sake

There's nothing fiscal or progressive about the Republican party. You don't understand what a Progressive Conservative is so stop using it.

I wonder why it's suddenly acceptable to raise taxes on people who make more than 250,000 per year?

Because it wasn't acceptable to lower them in the first place

The "They can take one for the team" argument is bullshit. Being well-off doesn't automatically give the government a pass to leech off someone.

Agreed, but everyone has to pay their 'fair' share. And lowering taxes for wealthy people when there is economic uncertainty as well as right before you plan to go to war is out right fucking ridiculous. Obama is going to restore taxes to what they were before George Bush came into power. The government needs taxes more than anything right now so why in the hell should people who make over $250,000 a year get another 8 years of incredibly low taxes.

[genocidal]

You say that on the assumption that for one person to prosper, they must be hurting other people, and that's a bold correlation to make.

It's not bold, it's a matter of fact. Do you think people create wealth out of thin air (despite what economists will try to convince you of)? Do you think it's possible for every single person in the world to be rich?

If you answered no to either then you're one step closer to coming to terms with the fact that some people are going to be rich and a lot more people are going to be poor no matter what else happens. You're only deluding yourself if you think rich people don't profit on the backs of poor people in some fashion. I mean I'm amazed someone would say this - do you think you live in a vacuum?

[Cops]

Gen is right, again. If you believe you live in a country that doesn't abuse other countries for the sake of financial gain then you're deluding yourself. It's the same when it comes to people.