Weasel Nerf'd

[Kolar]

Warbirds, Spiders and Lancs weren't ever meant to successfully fight Weasels, EVER. That was just one of their weaknesses that they had to deal with.

The settings are not writen in stone. That is not to say "well fuck Kolar give the jav Level 4 bombs then", i'm saying that if this change went with that intention (which I believe it did not) then it went too far. Scaling it back with weapons, energy, ect.. wouldn't help the overall problem in non pure public arenas but it might help for pure ones. Just dealing with it, when it is not fair, balanced and does not add to the real game play is not what Staff or we as players should be intrested in. Dealing with something when the whole idea of this game is to make and change settings according to the type of game play for your zone?

Yeah, you can still make kills, sure, but in this new Weasel you will easily be killed 3:1, because a Warbird in spawn can just make radar shots and out manuever you.

And again, if you're in spawn you're not basing and the settings will not be changed to help the weasel or any ship to do this. If it's in base, taking calculated offensive moves, using tactics and actually having to deal with defenses then that's fine. That's where we need to focus on. If you dont see a 3:1 record as normal or acceptable, please try using a WB, a spider or something else for a day.

And seriously, overpowered? If it was so overpowered as people claim, why weren't there more Weasels than Warbirds?

It has if you would get the hell out of pure pub and watch some random publics.

they lost their point, they can't slip into flag room unnoticed anymore, because now every single ship can simply look at the bottom right hand corner of their screen and go 'oh look, here comes a Weasel, time for an easy kill'.

You can but you have to be fast, stalking or wasting time/energy is not something that i'm going to say you have to deal with but something that is fair in my opinion. You wouldn't have anytime do to whatever because almost all terriers use x-radar, if not a jav would get you fast under any settings.

So in giving everyone defense, you actually have upset the balance of not only the ship but the game as well in a few aspects.

The weasel is ineffective at doing anything else but lame kill in lower, take out a terrier every now and then and generally piss the entire public off which turns into them spec hunting, switch to a cloaker and not basing. I believe the old settings upset the public balanace more so then current settings. If basing got along fine before then it will continue to do so, and by all indications and observation it is.


Well that was boring. If you're reading this that probably means you've skiped my entire post or you're not really intrested in reading. We're here to make gaming better and if you want to disagree with the way staff is changing the game then fine, do so until they ban you for spamming but questioning their intentions? It's bullshit and you guys know it. Go make a proposal to Staff, if you want you can email it to me and i'll even back it if I like it but this has gotten out of hand here. If you're gonna reply talk about making the ship better for public basing, do not respond to the fair and logical reasons that I've given why this change happened, it isn't doing anything here and we're only screwing this chance to actually talk about making the zone better.

[Kolar]

Which is statistically impossible: to get a kill, someone has to die.

the hell they have! people use it for the same reason they have since i started, and as far a i know since it had bouncy bombs.
Bombs=bigger blast than bullets=better chance of kills
Bounce=get bombs into unexpected places/show off 1337 51<1LL5
thats why people use jav. any good jav can hold a base from weasel (curse you p0llux, curse you!) by merely bombing the walls or entrances a weasel tries to get in. You don't even need 100% accuracy so any half baked jav could do it with a little warning (and seeing as they'll either see a weasel on radar or on screen, or someone on their team will, you have to be pretty damn fast to get in if they haven't got any distraction).

The recent surge of javs can be traced to this issue since it does have X-Radar.

on the contrary, killing or harrassing them will encourage them to change ships (usually to terrier), possibly hunting down the weasel, possibyl in a terrier. The weasel can then retreat to mid base, where the ex-sniper will then either have to give up chasing the weasel (in which case the cycle can continue) or work with their team.

They're still not intrested in basing only hunting by going into the base. This still has nothing to do with getting people to base, we can't make them or encourage them or force them using this strategy and i'm sorry to say this but that senerio is also unlikely to ever happen. If they're spawn hunting they matter little to publics, as would the weasel hunting spawners.

Overpowering effect in public? IF this were true why were there very few players of the older small weasel with the rocket? IF the recent upgrades made the ship too powerful why wouldn't you pick one of those upgrades and scale it back?

The small number of players using this ship does not discount the fact that its effect was overpowering in all public arenas. The method of reducing that could be done 2 ways yet you probably would bitch and whine against both. Reducing speed, weapons, rotation ect.. or reducing the cloaking ability and stealth.

So it was warbirds now? I thought it was terriers. So instead of thinking "hey the warbird doesn't have any kind of personal defense, maybe we should do something since all the other ships have something no matter how small"... like I dunno, the ability to buy X-radar that gives a drain (so that they can't turn it on and shoot, but could turn it on and leave and not deal with an X)

If more basic ships can not control the flag room then they will not be intrested in basing for publics, they will change over to spawning, wb hunting, LTing or whatever else. This change was meant to cover all publics because of this fact, and if you take 2 mins to think about it, it will make sense. People are going to WB, Spider, lanc or whatever first in basing because they're the main battle ships. If 1 ship makes that experince lesser or harder then we're not helping the publics.

Which are you, a person that changed the settings or worked on the change, or just a player?

I am a player of TW first and that's who I am when we're talking about making this zone better.

Whatever you thought, you were wrong. You are a self admitted player that doesn't like the ability to cloak, that sees that ability as overpowering and destabilizing, and you seem to not have very much experience with the ship.

Stop classifying me Sarien without even knowing who I am or what my opinions are. You can disagree with my opinion but you can never say I was 'wrong' to have that opinion or 'wrong' in that opinion. I have no problem with people wanting to cloak. If we can balance it and bring it into pub basing then i'll be happy to 'deal with it'. I saw the ship as being over powered, not the ability to cloak or stealth. Perminentlly cloaking and stealth is not something that is fair and balanced to the style of game play in public arenas. My experience if you would like to know spans from 1998-2005, so before you want to pull the 'stfu fucking newb' card why not take my experience , my knowledge and my advice for what it is, just another persons opinion and move on from there. We're still stuck on the who, how, why problems of the weasel topic and i'm getting tired of saying spawners, LT, new players and who ever else you hate had little to do with this change.

This is what the change has done:
Made radar a constant check item and lob a bomb towards any dot you don't see the ship for.

From what i've seen most weasel turn off stealth to regenerate energy. If before this change using stealth and cloak made it easy to track weasel then I see this as a fair and well intented advantage.

Not changed the ability for the terrier to see said ship, in any way.

And that's fine, terriers will always be a primary basing ship and removing this ability would not be something worth touching. I dont believe we need to start making settings to well defined and balanced ships here.

Gave the warbird a form of "personal defense" in the form of messing with the other ship than the ship that needed the defense in the first place.

Permanently cloaking and stealth is not fair to all public arenas and I've mentioned the intented goal for WBs and basic dueling ships, being the catalyse of pub basing. This adds some tactial and thought process to using the weasel.

Made a leap of logic that has YET to be explained in any sort of goddamned fashion. Why not go back to the too-weak weasel, or even just scale the changes in that direction? Why? If every other word is ignored, I would like an answer to that question.

Reducing the speed, weapons and rotation and we would still have more people pissed off here. I want all of you guys (and you know who i'm talking to) to come up with some ideas for changing it to make it balanced and fair in basing because talking about the who, what, where, when, why crap about the weasel is getting boring. Do you think staff just threw up polls, asked people shit or did anything that effected basers or duelers without the basers and duelers demanding shit or wanting anything? No.

Easy, they don't care. And please don't say that you do care, because if you DID, you would have run tests with the Weasels just like you ran tests for Pure Base and the Lanc.

Well that's fine. The TW settings are pratically public these days, go find it and test them out on your own server or ask TW Dev if you can test them. If you're gonna be pissed off and angry over this and you don't have an awesome number or people organized to lobby for change, do it your self.

no real imput from real Weasel players, horrible or 'elite'. Hell, 'll even go as far back as bringing up that here, on this very site/forum, a vote was issued to remove Levis from the now Pure Pubs(or so I was told).

I would say that before the lanc change we probably didn't have a lot of people who we can classify as 'lanc players'. Since the weasel went small you guys have come to use it, you've developed your own little social gathering for it much like we have the basing comunity on here. Now with a large population of people as basers, duelers ect.. we could put it to a vote or ask well versed people within that but all i'm seeing from your group is fragmentation not cooperation, no real discussion about making things better or a want to balance the publics. Bring some real solutions and wants as a group to upper staff.

As people have said before, the Weasel's main goal was taken and ripped apart and placed in a much higher level of difficulty.

Not Being perminentally cloaked and stealthed now will bring more skill and thought process to using the weasel. We have to do this as well as balance out the publics because this game is based on player ability and skill. Increasing the speed but lowering the weapon damage might make using this ship better in basing.

[Theif of Time]

And again for the record, I was playing tonight for 3 hours, 80% of the time the flagroom was made up of this: One Terr, six(that's 6) Javs, and one(that's 1) Spider. Yeah... pure basing at it's best.

Its funny cos its true.

With a rocket I could get in. But I really can't be bothered to buy one everytime I die, especially with the new vulnerability to wb's.

[SpiderMage]

Why Sar?

Easy, they don't care. And please don't say that you do care, because if you DID, you would have run tests with the Weasels just like you ran tests for Pure Base and the Lanc. You tested the Lanc, tweaked it, retested and found something that works(the current settings), however there was no testing, no real tweaking and certainly no real imput from real Weasel players, horrible or 'elite'. Hell, 'll even go as far back as bringing up that here, on this very site/forum, a vote was issued to remove Levis from the now Pure Pubs(or so I was told).

As people have said before, the Weasel's main goal was taken and ripped apart and placed in a much higher level of difficulty. Hell, with the way it is now, anyone who calls a Weasel a 'newbie' is out and out stupid. You guys on staff seriously fucked with the purpose of the Weasel. Sure, it can cloak, big fucking whoop, but think about this, what good is an assassin if it's naked to the eye, but not the area's defenses? Apparently you forgot the checks and balances system of this game and what things were made for. Warbirds, Spiders and Lancs weren't ever meant to successfully fight Weasels, EVER. That was just one of their weaknesses that they had to deal with. In base or in spawn area it doesn't matter, Warbirds are not meant to fight Weasels, that's the Terr, Jav, Shark and now currently Weasel's job. You took the game's weakest ship and made it even weaker. Yeah, you can still make kills, sure, but in this new Weasel you will easily be killed 3:1, because a Warbird in spawn can just make radar shots and out manuever you. And seriously, overpowered? If it was so overpowered as people claim, why weren't there more Weasels than Warbirds? Why didn't the number of Weasels per pub sky rocket? And just for the record, going from 2 Weasel to 6 is not sky rocketing.

No one thought this through, you can claim you did it for the 'better of basing' but that's bullshit, pure and utter bullshit. Weasel was never a detriment to basing in the first place and never had been in ANY incarnation. Weasels were used sparingly and for a point. Now they lost their point, they can't slip into flag room unnoticed anymore, because now every single ship can simply look at the bottom right hand corner of their screen and go 'oh look, here comes a Weasel, time for an easy kill'. So in giving everyone defense, you actually have upset the balance of not only the ship but the game as well in a few aspects.

And again for the record, I was playing tonight for 3 hours, 80% of the time the flagroom was made up of this: One Terr, six(that's 6) Javs, and one(that's 1) Spider. Yeah... pure basing at it's best.

Btw, easily half the Javs TKed each other at least 3 times every few minutes, especially when a Weasel made an attempt to get in. The other day I was playing Terr and Theif was a Weasel, and he never got more than a few tiles into flagroom before he was raped by Spiders, Warbirds, Javs and the other Terrs.

So much for assassins, and here I thought people thought ninjas were cool.

[Sarien]

Overall this doesn't address the weasel's overpowering effect in public rather reducing the ability to use that power. It's something at least, you've gotta admit something had to be changed so at least thank upper staff for still caring.

Overpowering effect in public? IF this were true why were there very few players of the older small weasel with the rocket? IF the recent upgrades made the ship too powerful why wouldn't you pick one of those upgrades and scale it back?

The problem when it comes to publics was not the spawn but how it could take down terriers easily and effectively make publics unstable.

Unstable? More like made new defs for the weasel. I can't tell you the number of times that I switched to ship 6 after the upgrade to defend the base from enemy X. And again, if that wasn't the goal intended, you could have always scaled things backward in the direction of the previous "too weak" weasel. But that wasn't what was done. A basic tenet and design of the ship was messed with.

Maybe.. logically... not having Warbirds killed every 5 seconds without some kind of personal defense.. at least not as much (actually caring about basing) would help them track and hunt down LTs.

So it was warbirds now? I thought it was terriers. So instead of thinking "hey the warbird doesn't have any kind of personal defense, maybe we should do something since all the other ships have something no matter how small"... like I dunno, the ability to buy X-radar that gives a drain (so that they can't turn it on and shoot, but could turn it on and leave and not deal with an X)

I thought the new settings would make you guys happy even though the method of reducing its power would be by making you guys think more and actually do some work to get a kill.

Which are you, a person that changed the settings or worked on the change, or just a player?


Whatever you thought, you were wrong. You are a self admitted player that doesn't like the ability to cloak, that sees that ability as overpowering and destabilizing, and you seem to not have very much experience with the ship.

This is what the change has done:
Made radar a constant check item and lob a bomb towards any dot you don't see the ship for.
Not changed the ability for the terrier to see said ship, in any way.
Gave the warbird a form of "personal defense" in the form of messing with the other ship than the ship that needed the defense in the first place.
Taken a fragile ship, and made it so that rather than by guile and sneakyness it's instead required to be lucky.
Made a leap of logic that has YET to be explained in any sort of goddamned fashion. Why not go back to the too-weak weasel, or even just scale the changes in that direction? Why? If every other word is ignored, I would like an answer to that question. Why?

[Theif of Time]

In fact, if a 3:1 rec in wb was as easy as you claim, it would probably be the average.

Which is statistically impossible: to get a kill, someone has to die.

The only reason why people have started to use javs more recently is to hunt down weasels.

the hell they have! people use it for the same reason they have since i started, and as far a i know since it had bouncy bombs.
Bombs=bigger blast than bullets=better chance of kills
Bounce=get bombs into unexpected places/show off 1337 51<1LL5
thats why people use jav. any good jav can hold a base from weasel (curse you p0llux, curse you!) by merely bombing the walls or entrances a weasel tries to get in. You don't even need 100% accuracy so any half baked jav could do it with a little warning (and seeing as they'll either see a weasel on radar or on screen, or someone on their team will, you have to be pretty damn fast to get in if they haven't got any distraction).

If a weasel is spawning or not inside the base then they do not matter. What would killing or harassing them do? certainly not want to go inside the base.

on the contrary, killing or harrassing them will encourage them to change ships (usually to terrier), possibly hunting down the weasel, possibyl in a terrier. The weasel can then retreat to mid base, where the ex-sniper will then either have to give up chasing the weasel (in which case the cycle can continue) or work with their team. At the least, they will be taking the weasels attention away from their teammates, while being a midterr.
Or, it could just plain make them give up and leave (which is sad, but like Forrest Gump said... shit happens) or give up and join their team.
Really, I don't see what there is to lose.

[Kolar]

I give up, staff is too far detached from the average player to know what works and what doesn't. gg, enjoy your (non-) basing.

I do not represent all of staff and I told you I'm telling you this not as a baser, a staff or anything but a TW player. Upper Staff owns the zone and they'll change it acording to what they believe will make basing better as it is the goal of pubbing, not what a majority would or as you say 'he who bitches too much' wants.

[PH]

I give up, staff is too far detached from the average player to know what works and what doesn't. gg, enjoy your (non-) basing.

[Kolar]

Well you guys are hopeless but at least you're fighting amongst yourselves now, not with people who actually want to make the zone better.

Spawners/"Duelers" and campers/"snipers", who are notorious for refusing to work with their teammates, are inconvenienced by Weasels.

If a weasel is spawning or not inside the base then they do not matter. What would killing or harassing them do? certainly not want to go inside the base.

I've watched five different pubs, one pure and four regular, at least three times apiece, and not once have I seen more than five ships per side, at least three of which were javs every single time, trying to base. Everyone else is chasing an LT or having a pissing contest in the spawn zone, and killing anyone unfortunate enough to pass through the area en route to the base.

Pure Hatred, by reducing this ship's effect on public it has strengthened basing from what I've seen. I've seen more publics full with 30 people or more and even at 12 am as I'm writing this almost all of them have even teams of more then 10 people. I'm seeing a lot of action in the flag rooms and in Mid. I think you're all over stating the effects of the weasel on the entire game.

Eeks said it before, but he meant it in an entirely different way. I'm going to say it again and mean it on a much different, and broader, scale. Basing = dead. And all because a few selfish whiners wouldn't work with their team. Props, people. Big fuckin' props. I don't know how you did it, but with one tiny change to a ship that was a "minority" at best, you've destroyed basing.

Eeks was talking about ?go base and in general the basing comunity since it has be diluted by newer players. The older players have lost their drive to do all that they can to win.


If basing in the publics has not changed (which I believe it has not for all 3 different modern weasel settings) then the small minority of weasel users would not have a global effect over the public arenas and reducing their power and abilities in publics to balance out the settings would not do anything to cause problems in TW. If you would like to say Staff is not doing the right thing here to make basing better (because you cant really say anything else about thier effect in publics, because that's all they should be doing) then do so but do not imply that basing is dying due to this.

EDIT: Saying you can still base with this gimmick Weasel is like saying you can use the Spider as a basing ship even if its firing rate is cut by 75%. A well-rounded basing team with good communication can neutralize any Weasel, with any settings.

And you are not always going to have that or even a terrier in most publics. Can you not see that we are not promoting or encouraging basing in the publics if we appease small and insignificant minorities. That's not saying, "hey everyone else, you're fucked if you're not a baser" this is beyond that, the publics have a primary goal and that is basing/flagging.

And yet the basing teams are still made up of mostly Javelins, almost none of which can aim to save their life. Props for fucking up your priorities this badly, boys. I didn't think it could be done.

The only reason why people have started to use javs more recently is to hunt down weasels.


You can do everything you could before the change but now you need to watch your energy, use some brain power and develop some skill for this ship. The changes were made not to apease anyone but to make the publics better and that's that. Staff, dock, Priitk, bluemoon; they wouldn't be paying for this shit if they didn't want to make it better. When I say better, I'm not saying it as a baser, a staffer or anything but a player of this zone, that's what this change was for and that's why so many people play it.

[deutschpunkrevolte]

*dancing the forbidden dance to show FULL ACK to PURE HATRED*

[PH]

Because of the variety of ships and the ways they can be played, someone's ALWAYS going to be inconvenienced by certain players and/or ships. I'm going to pull a Tone and repeat myself a few times.

Basers with bad communication skills are inconvenienced by LT's, roof javs and the occasional Weasel sneaking into the FR. This is their fault for not calling out the location of the threat and neutralizing it quickly and effectively. Inexperienced Javelins also don't know how to calculate bomb trajectories, and more often than not they don't know when to use bullets rather than bombs. Blaming the least frequent threat, the Weasel, for basers screwing up is ridiculous.

Spawners/"Duelers" and campers/"snipers", who are notorious for refusing to work with their teammates, are inconvenienced by Weasels. This is their fault for a couple of reasons. One, the newer players might not know that the big blob-looking thing on the radar is not for decoration. It is, in fact, a base. With a flag inside. If they're not interested in basing then there are other arenas (wbduel, elim, almost any private arena), all of which are readily available to them, that would be better suited for practicing than a pub.

This is where the "team" aspect came into play. Every ship worked together to protect one another. Now, by crippling an assassin ship that forced an opponent to cooperate with his teammates rather than follow his own selfish agenda, the team aspect is out the window. I've watched five different pubs, one pure and four regular, at least three times apiece, and not once have I seen more than five ships per side, at least three of which were javs every single time, trying to base. Everyone else is chasing an LT or having a pissing contest in the spawn zone, and killing anyone unfortunate enough to pass through the area en route to the base.

Eeks said it before, but he meant it in an entirely different way. I'm going to say it again and mean it on a much different, and broader, scale. Basing = dead. And all because a few selfish whiners wouldn't work with their team. Props, people. Big fuckin' props. I don't know how you did it, but with one tiny change to a ship that was a "minority" at best, you've destroyed basing.

EDIT: Saying you can still base with this gimmick Weasel is like saying you can use the Spider as a basing ship even if its firing rate is cut by 75%. A well-rounded basing team with good communication can neutralize any Weasel, with any settings. I tested a lot of teams' communication skills with the old Weasel, and I found that the average pub basing team, with a lineup that looked something like one terr, six javs, one spider and maybe one lanc, was horrible at watching out for and disposing of me. So what this leads me to believe is that rather than educate the stupid basers, staff took a shortcut and said "Okay, you guys can't communicate and we're sick of Tone's whining, so here. You don't need to talk to each other at all now. Enjoy." Voilá. The Weasel "menace" is now severely crippled. And yet the basing teams are still made up of mostly Javelins, almost none of which can aim to save their life. Props for fucking up your priorities this badly, boys. I didn't think it could be done.

[Subjugation]

And you expected better when the average player of this game can't even buy a pack of smokes? You, Tone and probably a few other shitheads would still be bitching up a storm if the shoe was still on our foot, so I really don't know why you're pulling a holier-than-thou here.

Ditch these settings and give us back the big Weasel so the ship isn't a useless gimmick like it is now. Do I need to make 500 threads about it so staff will bow down? Do I need to repeat myself ten times in each post?

I love how arrogant most of the people who are satisfied with this change have become. Another life-or-death battle has ended in victory for those living the Internerd spaceship game fantasy.

I'm pulling a holier than reisen attitude, because I'm not the one guilty of not following my own advice. So when I start doing that, I welcome you to set me straight.

btw, what's the big deal anyway? you can still use the ship to base, and still has plenty of lameness to x people in the spawn. The only difference is it requires more skill in manipulating the functions, and paying attention to your energy levels. I've been playing the x a lot for the last 2 days, and I dont' see how it has been crippled beyond function.

[PH]

Blah, nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered. I found out you're pretty much a hypocrite who should take his own advice about "it's only a problem when it's inconvenient to you". So when the shoe is on the other foot, I see you don't like it so much.

And you expected better when the average player of this game can't even buy a pack of smokes? You, Tone and probably a few other shitheads would still be bitching up a storm if the shoe was still on our foot, so I really don't know why you're pulling a holier-than-thou here.

Ditch these settings and give us back the big Weasel so the ship isn't a useless gimmick like it is now. Do I need to make 500 threads about it so staff will bow down? Do I need to repeat myself ten times in each post?

I love how arrogant most of the people who are satisfied with this change have become. Another life-or-death battle has ended in victory for those living the Internerd spaceship game fantasy.

[deutschpunkrevolte]

let s keep it empiric:

if one weasel has nrg drain when cloaked it sucks
if two weasels have nrg drain when cloaked it sucks even more
if 3 weasels have nrg drain when cloaked it sucks even more
if 4 weasels have nrg drain when cloaked it sucks even more
if 5 weasels have nrg drain when cloaked it sucks even more
...

empiric enuf for u <_<

[Subjugation]

If you play a shark and laid mines in a tube and just ran away whenever an enemy showed up, you could do a lot better than 3:1.

If you play a warbird and do nothing buy spawn people, you can get a 3:1 or better, again, if you're good at running away.

As far as the shark comment goes, if you're flying up the main tube, and you run into mines, it's pretty much your own fault for dying. People mine the main chute all the time, and it's just a matter of paying attention to your screen and looking to see if there are mines there. That's completely a different situation than some newb cloaker in the spawn.

And as far as your 3:1 ratio for wb's go...you have no clue what you're talking about. I'm a perfect example of mediocrity with a wb. I have a 1:1 rec and even if I were to just go around laming levis, the best I could do is probably a 1.5-2:1 ratio. In fact, if a 3:1 rec in wb was as easy as you claim, it would probably be the average.

Weasels kept a lot of things in check, and sure, they were a nuisance at times, too, but it's easier to hop in a terrier and take them out than it is to type a 10 paragraph thesis on why they're "overpowered". Now, I see more warbirds camping and spawning than ever. If you go hunt them, they just warp away. With a weasel, you could make sure they didn't. Simply put, it was an inconvenience to a lot of people, and they came here to voice their nonsensical reasons about how the ship is "overpowered" and "ruining the game". If you ask me, it's these anti-social, anti-teamwork people that are ruining the game.

I've been cloaked my fair share, even as a new player and didn't really know what it was, but I never came here and started complaining. I took some advice from other players on what to do about them, and now (well, not now) I ask the terriers or javs if there are any weasels nearby. Unfortunately, not everyone has the ability to type "//hey, is there a weasel nearby?" for whatever reason and thus the ship is ruined.

If you don't like playing a team game, then don't. Go to some arena where the main objective isn't dependent upon you working together with your team mates. Don't spin that "elim is for experienced players" bull, either. I've been in there and most of the players just spawn kill you and call you EZ. There's not a whole lot of difference between that and the way the pubs are now. You could also round up some friends and go to a private arena, or go in one by yourself and shoot at the rocks as targets. There are a lot more ways to practice than just spawning people in pubs.

Blah, nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered. I found out you're pretty much a hypocrite who should take his own advice about "it's only a problem when it's inconvenient to you". So when the shoe is on the other foot, I see you don't like it so much.