Forum Mafia - Shawshank Redemption - Salvation lies within

[scarlet]

Exalt why do you think field is scum?

[WillBy]

I dont think I ever defended Jessup, I only questioned zeebus dumb reason for voting her. Pretty sure we all have completely equal probabilities of drawing scum. I dont like bad play, almost as much as I dislike people breaking the rules. Should've been jessup over sherlock though. Blatant disregard for hosts simple request and disrespect of the effort put into this game.

[scarlet]

Being able to post during the night is so surreal to me. I'm sure this is going to be bad for my health.

I've got relatively strong town reads on the_paul, willby and voth, in that order.
I have no complaints about exalt, party falcon and kassius in order of work down. Leaning town.
I didn't really have a strong motivation to think jessup was scum outside of their failure to respond to sherlock, which I can more easily look past given they're not scummates.

Zeebu was voting for reasons unrelated to jessup's unusual voting behavior and left it on there without really commenting on sherlok on the sherlok/jessup s/s scenario. Despite this, was lobbying for people to leave the beast wagon for the jessup wagon because he thought jessup was scummier during the main formation of the jessup/sherlock wagons (posts #199, #200).
Never really gave a strong reasoning why as far as I can see.

I don't think the way beast has been acting has any correlation with any wincon in this game.

As for why I haven't commented about anyone else, no one else has done anything worth commenting about.
...
I post when I have something to say (or at least think I do), and there's nothing to say about other players.

Vehicle has been dangerously one-note this game, but that's about it. I don't agree with the basis for their case, I don't "see what they're seeing", but assuming that it's not fabricated it's a reasonable case if it's what they believe.
However, I deeply resent the fact that Vehicle made an excuse for lurking and I question their claim that there wasn't anything worth posting about anything or anyone involved in the jessup/sherlock trains.

Field has just been totally inactive all game. I'm not as bothered by the 1.5 posts they made all game as I am by e.g. halp's, but fields done literally no work and been sitting on a really early vote this whole time.

I'm probably jumping on halp first thing D2 if we're both alive and he hasn't posted, but all I really need is his followup post so there's no point pursuing this until then.

The post I got from halp (#216, page 15) didn't add anything and implied there was nothing useful in the thread up to that point, made comments about jessup and scarlet that pretty much every active player had already said by that point, then jumped on an unrelated wagon on beast with the claim that there was literally no indication of any player's alignment in the thread and that beast was our best option for a random lynch.
Halp you've got time now over the phase change. What can you say about the state of the game and the alignment of the players in it?

[Vehicle]

Seriously apologies for being inactive. I had meant to wake up a little early this morning to read thread and update my vote but then I snooze like four times. I'm going to try to put in effort to be more active.

Once again we have a last-minute vote swap during D1, but I think the circumstances are way different than when I (as scum) did it to scarlet last game. Jessup's roleclaim really forced Voth's hand and, like Exalt said, there 'd be no reason for Voth (as scum) to save him. I'm strongly leaning towards Voth being town.

Scarlet has won me over to some degree with his posts since the last time I read through the thread but I still find him slightly questionable. Overall, though, I've moved from thinking he was scum to probably slightly better than neutral. I apologize for not getting here on time to change my vote off of him.

I think Jessup is scum. It only took one vote to swing the results and I think Jessup's rolceclaim was honestly just a Hail Mary. I think she is probably sick and not feeling well (and I hope she gets better), but in my experience that means she's probably got some time to read thread. And coming in late in the game to roleclaim in order to save herself means she likely was monitoring thread. When she did show up she defended herself through attacks on Voth, which is typical of her but particularly advantageous all things considered. (It was Voth who changes his vote too, which is just an interesting nugget to point out, not pointing any fingers). I'm not saying I'm going to vote for him tomorrow because if I'm wrong I will be crusading against the town's doctor, I'm just saying we should look at her roleclaim a little more deeply.

Halp's posts on page 15 were kind of strange. He posted enough to look like content but said very little and then voted Beast before coming back randomly to quote scarlet and say that the "meta is for field to be scum," which for one thing isn't how metas work and for another thing is just weird.

Those are really my only reads from the first day but I think we'll know a lot more as tomorrow gets going. (I don't have some kind of inside scoop, I'm just saying.)



Honestly there's no reason for me to be making this post during N1, I just felt incredibly guilty for my inactivity so I wanted to offer my thoughts.

[Vehicle]

Vehicle has been dangerously one-note this game, but that's about it. I don't agree with the basis for their case, I don't "see what they're seeing", but assuming that it's not fabricated it's a reasonable case if it's what they believe.
However, I deeply resent the fact that Vehicle made an excuse for lurking and I question their claim that there wasn't anything worth posting about anything or anyone involved in the jessup/sherlock trains.

I agree and I'm sorry which is why I made the above post (I hadn't seen yours before I posted). I realize that i didn't mention Sherlock in my writeup but I didn't really see him as scummy. His posts were all short and it seemed like he was kind of just not paying attention. I wouldn't have voted for him.

[Beast]

This is why I don't vote on stupid trains EVERY SINGLE TIME, reminds me of nearly every democrat.

[Voth]

This is why I don't vote on stupid trains EVERY SINGLE TIME, reminds me of nearly every democrat.

Please go and fuck off and let people who not brain damaged play the game. Fuck.

[Voth]

Time for bed but I will respond to those of you who string a sentence together tomorrow.

[Halp]

The Voth/Jessup interaction strikes me as a bit forced. Voth is playing his typical scum game, throwing shade at every player, twisting every post anyone makes into a scum post, and the “oops guess I was wrong lol” when a lynch he advocates ends up being a Townie.

I’m not ready to say Jessups doctor claim is fake, but considering she was about to be lynched, on D1, a doctor claim serves to save your ass for a little while with the added bonus of potentially drawing out a counter claim. I don’t trust it. I’m sure I’ll take heat for “going after the town doctor” if it turns out that way, but as a Townie I could give two shits about taking heat.

[scarlet]

ah shit, knew I was forgetting someone

m_leonard's only post about anything which wasn't double lynches was this section on his most recent (#141, page 10):

I know this will get construed as me defending Beast, so I want to make clear: I AM NOT defending beast. But....why beast? Beast has literally said all of three things in this game. Is this some other random meta gaming shit? So what if prior games left a "bad taste" (to quote Kassius), that was a different game. I know nothing about him in this game at this point and his decision to vote for you, Willby, seems based on about as much evidence as everyone else has proffered. So, why do you think Beast? Based on the terms of this game. I'm genuinely asking.

He blended together in my mind because I kept thinking of him as the 'scummier vehicle'.
Unlike vehicle, his reason for pursuing me is less subjective; the claim that I'd insisted on a double lynch to the exclusion of scumhunting is demonstrably false. He stopped posting after willby called him on it and exalt asked if he had anything alignment indicative.
He hasn't posted anything since then.

An actual scum read, just like halp.

---

Vehicle
I don't especially buy scum!jessup. I don't especially buy the roleclaim, I'd claim as any role of any alignment if I thought it'd stop a mislynch. I considered changing my vote to keep the tie and kill jessup as well, but I don't find their behavior regarding how they defended themself towards the end at all out of character from what I've seen of their towngame.
The big question to me is, why would Jessup seem so reluctant to vote for Sherlock if jessup was scum? We know for a fact that it's not like they were scum together.

[Beast]

Please go and fuck off and let people who not brain damaged play the game. Fuck.

is that even a proper sentence?

[Beast]

missing words: "are"

[Kassius]

So.. I think the safe bet is to do what we did last game, and work our way through the vote list on Sherlock. I can't believe we have a purely town on town lynch. At least it's a place to start.

[5] Sherlock Holmes - Exalt, PartyFalcon, jessup scarlet, Voth

The hardest scum lean I have right now is Exalt. Immediately after the lynch he's only interested in the unconfirmed Jessup votes, rather than the votes that killed Sherlock.

Scarlet was really trying to force the issue on Sherlock, almost too much. Scum wouldn't be this amateurish. I think Scarlet's just jumped to the wrong conclusion. I openly said in my post at the risk of defending him if he was scum, "he might just be a new player who doesn't know how to play", or words to that effect, which is why I didn't vote that way when he asked me. Scum don't start trains, or at least they shouldn't, and they definitely don't try to coerce the whole player base into voting their target. I know scarlets new to us, and I'm new to Mafia as a whole, but this must be a universal constant to me.

Jessup is playing different, but has now gone batshit insane. Hope you feel better soon. Just try not to take anything personally, it's only a game. Most of what everyone says is with a purpose to illicit a reaction and hopefully information. The fact that she got so openly frustrated, and wanted to be modkilled if she is the town doctor, rather than just claiming, is a dick move however you frame it. Not even giving people a chance to change their votes. Poor form, Jessup.

PF, I'm waiting to hear one of her lovely big analytical posts before I comment too much. Until then, she's reading slightly scummy to me as she's acting different this game.

Voth's hand has been forced, which on the surface gives him protection from reading that as scum. But if he were scum, I think he'd have more openly agreed with Scarlet's Sherlock train. This is making me believe Voth actually is town.

So of those on Sherlock train, I'm thinking:

Exalt - Scum
PF - Scum
Jessup - Not sure
Scarlet - Not sure
Voth - Town

I'm also still wary of Beast.

[Exalt]

So.. I think the safe bet is to do what we did last game, and work our way through the vote list on Sherlock. I can't believe we have a purely town on town lynch. At least it's a place to start.

[5] Sherlock Holmes - Exalt, PartyFalcon, jessup scarlet, Voth

The hardest scum lean I have right now is Exalt. Immediately after the lynch he's only interested in the unconfirmed Jessup votes, rather than the votes that killed Sherlock.

Scarlet was really trying to force the issue on Sherlock, almost too much. Scum wouldn't be this amateurish. I think Scarlet's just jumped to the wrong conclusion. I openly said in my post at the risk of defending him if he was scum, "he might just be a new player who doesn't know how to play", or words to that effect, which is why I didn't vote that way when he asked me. Scum don't start trains, or at least they shouldn't, and they definitely don't try to coerce the whole player base into voting their target. I know scarlets new to us, and I'm new to Mafia as a whole, but this must be a universal constant to me.

Jessup is playing different, but has now gone batshit insane. Hope you feel better soon. Just try not to take anything personally, it's only a game. Most of what everyone says is with a purpose to illicit a reaction and hopefully information. The fact that she got so openly frustrated, and wanted to be modkilled if she is the town doctor, rather than just claiming, is a dick move however you frame it. Not even giving people a chance to change their votes. Poor form, Jessup.

PF, I'm waiting to hear one of her lovely big analytical posts before I comment too much. Until then, she's reading slightly scummy to me as she's acting different this game.

Voth's hand has been forced, which on the surface gives him protection from reading that as scum. But if he were scum, I think he'd have more openly agreed with Scarlet's Sherlock train. This is making me believe Voth actually is town.

So of those on Sherlock train, I'm thinking:

Exalt - Scum
PF - Scum
Jessup - Not sure
Scarlet - Not sure
Voth - Town

I'm also still wary of Beast.

If your own hard SR is me, then you best go back to the drawing board and try again, because you're not doing so hot in that case.

[PartyFalcon]

So hi I’ve caught up now thanks for your patience. Here are my thoughts:
-Scarlet: Seems like people are going after scarlet a little harder than is reasonable; scarlet reads similarly to me this game as to last game—as I said above I think it may be a meta-clash, and personally I like scarlet’s style. As others have already noted, I don’t think scarlet’s actions are alignment-indicative and scarlet could very well be town. Tl;dr: slight townie lean if only bc of how everyone has attacked
-Voth: I don’t usually see eye-to-eye with Voth but Voth seems more volatile and scattered this game which interestingly enough seems to have a townie texture to my brain. Tl;dr: slight townie lean
-m_leonhard: it’s hard to say but reads to me like a townie who’s a bit excited/caught up in the moment/slightly gullible—like your winedrunk aunt. Could of course be scum but i definitely don’t have any kind of read like I did at any point last game (where I thought he was scum from literally his first post). Tl;dr: slight townie lean
-Jessup: play-style is definitely different from past games where she was town (I have never played a game with her where she was scum). I would like to think it’s that she’s learning / trying new things and I’m trying to withhold giving any alignment read here since I’m definitely not looking at her objectively yet after last game—I’m working on it, just wanna be transparent. Tl;dr: abstain from read (bitter)

I like the strategy of putting some pressure on a relatively quiet/potentially scummy (or otherwise suspected) player to facilitate some discussions and move the ball a little bit. The double-kill fodder has been fun but we have another 23 hours and I don’t know about y’all but I personally don’t have strong/justifiable scum reads on the people currently taking heat. I’m on my phone though because I’m aspiring to go to that special level of hell scarlet speaks of, so my next post will have my bolded vote change to Sherlock.

Kassius Hey if you’re looking for my analytical posts so far this game they’re on page 13. Here’s one for your convenience. Will obviously be continuing to analyze things as more facts become available. Personally I don’t think there’s a ton to read into on the Sherlock lynch, unless Jessup (or a player previously on the block) flips scum. Tbh I do my best work after the first scum flips since what I really do is look at patterns / group adhesion, which is why I think I did well last game. So far all we have is one townie flip which doesn’t give me any kind of grounding to feel confident about who is (or is not) working together covertly. I do appreciate the scrutiny, and (while it feels petty to do so) I will also point out that last game I only had one post day 1 and it was a throwaway so to say I’m providing less analyses than last game I would argue is false/misleading.