Forum Mafia - Shawshank Redemption - Salvation lies within

[m_leonhard]

Let me get this straight.

My role is useless and doesnt benefit town, but I should have waited to make sure I targeted scum. by this same logic a roleblocker should abstain N1 because they could block cop or something. Is that how you would play roleblocker?

and then you make an argument about not wanting to hit a townie with it. Of course this argument could be made for lynching D1 as well, but we all agreed that lynching someone day 1 is a good move as it provides information about players perspective. Except just losing a vote for D2 is a lot less impactful than lynching a power role.

Finally, what would I save my second shot for? The odds of me surviving to lylo twice are pretty low, especially when I claim to be abstaining from something every night.

Now here's a bit I think is interesting. You think that this could be a useful cult or scum role, but that it's definitely not town. Could you elaborate? Scum and cult are far more dependent on their ability to control votes. Why would scum use a role that gets rid of one of their votes? Moreover, what kind of bullshit would it be if scum could kill someone AND remove a townie vote the same phase? This would let scum bypass the last phase for an instant win. I dont see how this can be a balanced scum role, as it can function as a second kill in crucial moments.

I think you just explained how it balances itself out. Scum and cult are dependent on their ability to control votes. So, this is a vote depressing mechanism. That said, as with the name of the character: it's a gamble. 50/50 either scum gets a second kill in a crucial moment, OR loses a vote in a critical moment. It's a gamble to be used in a high stakes situation.

[WillBy]

Yes I think you're scum. I don't really see a use for you if you were town, so I don't really see a reason for your role to exist unless you were scum.

So it's just the role? I can work with that. I realize you all havent thought about my role as its uses as much as I have, but truly try to think about how OP destroying votes can be in the hands of scum. There were 15 players originally, 13 now. Based on paul flipping cult, I'd estimate we have 4 scum left. So 9 town (non mafia), 4 scum. Let's mislynch today, because we have no new information besides that jessup was jailed. And then mafia gets a kill off because they wont be targeting jessup again. Were at 7-4, but mafia willby has used his role to steal a townie vote. 6-4, and unless town is more or less united, they are toast.

If you factor in that mafia could have gotten another kill N1 from not shooting into protection or paul (and paul still suicides into scum), town is at 5-4 and this game is pretty much over at D3. Its not balanced is what I'm saying. This role is not a scum role. I cant see any vote manipulation role be allowed for scum team, but who knows, I dont use those roles in the first place because I feel like they too easily confirm someone town.

[scarlet]

so I don't really see a reason for your role to exist unless you were scum.

Could just be chaff to block up the wildcard(s).
This is such a lazy fucking wagon. The only people on it who have actually said willby is scummy because of how he's played are Exalt, and he refuses to even elaborate.
Kassius, who I'm assuming is town, says he 'justified it before' but never did or at least never told us where.

Does anyone actually have a reason for voting willby that they can describe which is more than just "I don't like his roleclaim"?. I don't like his roleclaim because he's not far from vanilla and shouldn't be claiming, and the actions he did take are objectively usually bad for town. If I do lynch him though, it's unlikely to be over something as flimsy as that.

Is his roleclaim any worse than this?

you really trying to out me that bad huh? i'm not ready to reveal my role for scum to potentially target me.... it, it's not quite as op as last game, and you're the one who's useless. always hoping on my dick literally every game when you yourself have contributed nothing for this game, terrible shark wish you would just quit the internet in the kindest way you no shipping, no game talent pubber. fyi, I have no kill action.

No? So find a better reason.

---

WillBy
What about having two votes on you early D2 made you so worried that you felt the need to claim to clear them, which was different to and so much worse than having 4 votes on you D1?

[Exalt]

Choo choo motherfuckers. All aboard!

[Vehicle]

scarlet What do you suggest?

Jessup more afk than usual and also claims to have not used her protective role (maybe because she doesn't have it).

Exalt refusing to engage because WIllby is refusing to engage.

Halp coming and dropping two posts that didn't stand out to me as anything in particular.

m_leo posting about flouride

Voth more inactive than usual and also throwing way less shade than usual.

Beast being Beast

Zeebu is afk

Kassius you either believe or don't, and it seems reasonable to believe him at the moment.

Field posted something but I can't even remember what it was.

That's more-or-less how I've seen this game go. If I'm going to vote for someone purely based on how they've been playing, that vote is going on Voth. But it's not that I don't like WIllby's role, it's that I don't see how it's in any way ever pro-town.

Give me something better and I'll happily jump off this "lazy bandwagon" but from where I sit there isn't shit else happening in this 31-page-long thread

[Jessup]

Just vote field and we get a mafia gone and can move on ..That is what I have done

Field is about as active and scummy a lurker as PF is at this stage. seriously would rather us just go for lurkers as they have the higher chance for being scum statistically.

Willby claimed, kassius claimed, Jessup claimed. NONE of these should go..

Lurkers ya .. they can go or need to post something of substance which voting for them will force it to happen.

[scarlet]

from where I sit there isn't shit else happening in this 31-page-long thread

So you should be going after the people refusing to try to get something going.
Willby's role has nothing to do with his alignment. If you don't think he's scum, why are you voting him?

Let's compare willby, one of the most active players in the thread D1 and D2, to m_leonhard, who:
D1, did nothing but ride a lynch on someone for being anti-town, then contrive it into a weak fallacious lynch over a scum play. Disappeared from the thread page10 when it was clear his ideas weren't getting any traction
D2, appears on page 27, one post, no mention whatsoever of what happened to the previous case. Some commentary on what's going on, no commitments. Page 30, jumps on the laziest train in the world using reasoning that I posted and he quoted, which I the original poster think is super far from conclusive.

What a town player. How is this different from what he pulled last game while you were scum with him?

[Jessup]

scarlet What do you suggest?

Jessup more afk than usual and also claims to have not used her protective role (maybe because she doesn't have it).

That is a lie.. I have mild but still awful covid I think as I explained so was sleeping sick and with terrible headache chills and earache. I'm semi on the mend so been posting way more. I know I posted more than you and contributed more than u too vehicle mehhhhhh

Plus I am the damn doctor and YOU keep over and over and over questioning it.. focus on someone else who is really lurking and not towns strongest revealed role..me as doctor.. jesus …. scummy smelling vehicle but I allow u a pass for the time being because I think u are trying to maybe be cautious but I assure u ,, ur fear is unwarranted .. This is like the 3rd or 4th post u said this same dumb thing too about me.

[Kassius]

Sorry scarlet & Jessup, I can't be more specific than I already have been as I've checked with kthx. All the words of my result are there across my posts. Jessup was in solitary. I got no clues. To be in solitary, you mustn't be allowed to leave, because the door is ......

My conclusion, is that I pulled a cop investigation last night. I did not get success, fail or 'no result'. You have what I've got, no more no less.

[scarlet]

Not what I asked.
Why are you voting for willby?

[field]

Kassius Is the underlined portion of the following statement "I received 'no clues' because she was locked up in solitary" an analysis by you, or the mod-given result of your action? In my experience as a player and host, the mod never expands on why you get the result you did. So, if you did got "no clues" then that should've been the end of it.

For now at least, I'm willing to entertain your role claim and unvote: Kassius. Though I will note that a jailkeeper doesn't prevent all actions from failing -- only kills. Something's missing here.

Voth wow why don't you write a book while you're at it? Don't you know that the more you talk the more scummy in Jessup's eyes you are? Unfortunately that post wasn't enough for me to form a read on Voth.

Why does Exalt think a role that provides random results "could potentially" solve the game?
"It may be possible for some roles to put themselves in solitary" -- That's a bold claim and it's too OP for town to have such possibility. I think it's bullshit. I don't think taking votes away from some (town) players balances making town players unkillable at night. Jailkeeper is more believable but need to explain why Kassius got "no clues" when a jailkeeper only blocks kills. Also, this is the second time I catch Exalt "making shit up" about what others have said or done.

I think Vehicle is scum -- gut feeling I got after reading his post #438. WillBy is too easy a target to go after and the reasoning is a reach at best. WillBy has no control over what role he got so if he got an "anti-town role" as town it's not enough to lynch him, at the very least not for this role. He can abstain the rest of the game, rendering him a vanilla townie. Why do you want to lynch him for this and what evidence are you looking for, anyways? This is not to mention that we already have mod confirmation that WillBy was not lying about his role and action (could still be about alignment, but to me it's unlikely at this point).

I agree with Scarlet that WillBy using his action and claiming so early is detrimental to town, but I'm not sure there's a better way to play that role. If WillBy comes out any other phase and shares that info, he'll get lynched. Who's going to believe him? It only gets worse as game progresses.

I read m_leonard as scum on D1 because of a couple of posts he made, and I am now reading him as scum again on D2 because of this post:

I agree with scarlet, Willby's claim is useless and doesn't benefit town in any way. Assuming that Willby is fully telling the truth about his role...his actions make no sense if he were town.

First, if he only gets to use his vote blocking power twice, why blow it N1 why not wait until later in the game when we have more theories on who might be scum. Sure it's not the most useful role, but at least you have the potential to block a scum vote.

Second, why on earth would you use it on some random person N1? Your odds of hitting town at this stage are just as good, if not higher than hitting scum. Idk what PF's role is, but if PF is town and you successfully blocked....then we'd be out a town vote this turn.

Finally, even if this is all true, why the hell would it be claimed now? If you do have the power to block a future scum vote, why not just keep that quiet and attempt to use it against scum on a later round?

I don't know if this is a cult role, or a scum role, but it's not town.

VOTE WILLBY

He's just repeating what others have said and pretending to contribute.
Besides, all the questions he's asking make it seem like he believes WillBy's role, yet he thinks it's not town. What is it, scum role that potentially takes away votes from town? A bit OP don't you think? Scum losing a vote isn't as bad as town losing a vote. I'm going to vote: m_leonard

[WillBy]

WillBy
What about having two votes on you early D2 made you so worried that you felt the need to claim to clear them, which was different to and so much worse than having 4 votes on you D1?

D1 I was fine with people talking about lynching me. This happens every game (except the one I actually was scum) .The people voting for me were either doing gambits or falling for them. We got 2 good leads, neither of which ended up happening.

D2, I was worried something stupid would dominate the conversation for the day, and what do you know. Probably a misplay in retrospect, but I get caught up in it sometimes and dont always have what you might consider the most town reaction of casually dismissing any accusations that come my way. If fight back too much. I shouldnt play as soon as I wake up.
I didnt want the people who weren't reading along to get a few pages deep and say "you know what, I do always find willby suspicious". Thought I could prevent misreads. I wouldnt say I've failed, as 3/4 of the people on me this phase are the same as last phase, meaning that i havent exactly gained suspicion from top players.

Finally, I'll address it again. I dont think we have true vanillas this game. If my roleclaiming takes me off mafias target list and makes it easier for them to hit more useful roles, then so be it. But leaving me alive will still prove dangerous for scum. And they already had their more dangerous targets claimed like jessup or soft-claimed like kassius.
I dont think my action was objectively bad for town last night unless you think that any use is objectively bad for town, in which case I wont convince you otherwise. But at least you can follow my reasoning as far as a way to use it and get the most bang for my buck?

[Kassius]

Not what I asked.
Why are you voting for willby?

Because of his very scummy posts. As I've already said, I was waiting to vote for him, but did not want to be the first, because it would like like I've driven a fake-claim agenda on someone biting. But Exalt read it the same too, and put the vote down that I needed to also vote without making it look agenda-driven. Didn't think I needed to spell this out.

[Kassius]

D1 I was fine with people talking about lynching me. This happens every game (except the one I actually was scum) .The people voting for me were either doing gambits or falling for them. We got 2 good leads, neither of which ended up happening.

D2, I was worried something stupid would dominate the conversation for the day, and what do you know. Probably a misplay in retrospect, but I get caught up in it sometimes and dont always have what you might consider the most town reaction of casually dismissing any accusations that come my way. If fight back too much. I shouldnt play as soon as I wake up.
I didnt want the people who weren't reading along to get a few pages deep and say "you know what, I do always find willby suspicious". Thought I could prevent misreads. I wouldnt say I've failed, as 3/4 of the people on me this phase are the same as last phase, meaning that i havent exactly gained suspicion from top players.

Finally, I'll address it again. I dont think we have true vanillas this game. If my roleclaiming takes me off mafias target list and makes it easier for them to hit more useful roles, then so be it. But leaving me alive will still prove dangerous for scum. And they already had their more dangerous targets claimed like jessup or soft-claimed like kassius.
I dont think my action was objectively bad for town last night unless you think that any use is objectively bad for town, in which case I wont convince you otherwise. But at least you can follow my reasoning as far as a way to use it and get the most bang for my buck?

I'm sorry, what? Willby this is the second time this phase that you've left me open-mouthed with your posts. How have a 'soft-claimed'? I've full-claimed, seeded my role, and given my result.

Are you trying to go so far down being scum-read line that you come out the other side, as no-one that's scum could be that openly scummy? I mean last game, you fought tooth and nail D2, but it didn't work. Maybe you're trying something new this time.

field , the latter.

[Jessup]

I'll correct again, I'm not the town voyeur. The town voyeur would potentially know more than me last night on the actions against Jessup if they watched Jessup.

I've let this cook a while, to see what kind of reactions would come out of my claims.

Truthfully, I now don't mind getting lynched at this point. There's several people now looking very shady and I think my ability to further provide info for town is now quite limited. So if you need to lynch me to prove my information true, go ahead. But I am Town, and I can vote against scum on lynches, so you decide.

I'm the Town Wildcard. I targeted Jessup last night, in the hope of a protective or investigative role. I got a cop role, I investigated Jessup last night. I received 'no clues' because she was locked up in solitary. From this, I know:

a) She was jailed
b) There is a cop for me to have copied the role off

Oh, and I was secretly hoping to get the cult recruit power N1 because that would have been awesome lol.

Just to refresh.. lol.. locked up is solitary seems so .. weak as info.. this is weird as fk kthx would say that rather than you drew cop, your investigation was blocked.. I don't get it lol.. I wanna believe u kass but damnit why solitary and this weird inconclusive mod info sent ur way.. leaves it all very iffy and weak which is......