Forum Mafia - Shawshank Redemption - Salvation lies within

[scarlet]

Not what I asked.
Why are you voting for willby?

[Kassius]

Sorry scarlet & Jessup, I can't be more specific than I already have been as I've checked with kthx. All the words of my result are there across my posts. Jessup was in solitary. I got no clues. To be in solitary, you mustn't be allowed to leave, because the door is ......

My conclusion, is that I pulled a cop investigation last night. I did not get success, fail or 'no result'. You have what I've got, no more no less.

[Jessup]

scarlet What do you suggest?

Jessup more afk than usual and also claims to have not used her protective role (maybe because she doesn't have it).

That is a lie.. I have mild but still awful covid I think as I explained so was sleeping sick and with terrible headache chills and earache. I'm semi on the mend so been posting way more. I know I posted more than you and contributed more than u too vehicle mehhhhhh

Plus I am the damn doctor and YOU keep over and over and over questioning it.. focus on someone else who is really lurking and not towns strongest revealed role..me as doctor.. jesus …. scummy smelling vehicle but I allow u a pass for the time being because I think u are trying to maybe be cautious but I assure u ,, ur fear is unwarranted .. This is like the 3rd or 4th post u said this same dumb thing too about me.

[scarlet]

from where I sit there isn't shit else happening in this 31-page-long thread

So you should be going after the people refusing to try to get something going.
Willby's role has nothing to do with his alignment. If you don't think he's scum, why are you voting him?

Let's compare willby, one of the most active players in the thread D1 and D2, to m_leonhard, who:
D1, did nothing but ride a lynch on someone for being anti-town, then contrive it into a weak fallacious lynch over a scum play. Disappeared from the thread page10 when it was clear his ideas weren't getting any traction
D2, appears on page 27, one post, no mention whatsoever of what happened to the previous case. Some commentary on what's going on, no commitments. Page 30, jumps on the laziest train in the world using reasoning that I posted and he quoted, which I the original poster think is super far from conclusive.

What a town player. How is this different from what he pulled last game while you were scum with him?

[Jessup]

Just vote field and we get a mafia gone and can move on ..That is what I have done

Field is about as active and scummy a lurker as PF is at this stage. seriously would rather us just go for lurkers as they have the higher chance for being scum statistically.

Willby claimed, kassius claimed, Jessup claimed. NONE of these should go..

Lurkers ya .. they can go or need to post something of substance which voting for them will force it to happen.

[Vehicle]

scarlet What do you suggest?

Jessup more afk than usual and also claims to have not used her protective role (maybe because she doesn't have it).

Exalt refusing to engage because WIllby is refusing to engage.

Halp coming and dropping two posts that didn't stand out to me as anything in particular.

m_leo posting about flouride

Voth more inactive than usual and also throwing way less shade than usual.

Beast being Beast

Zeebu is afk

Kassius you either believe or don't, and it seems reasonable to believe him at the moment.

Field posted something but I can't even remember what it was.

That's more-or-less how I've seen this game go. If I'm going to vote for someone purely based on how they've been playing, that vote is going on Voth. But it's not that I don't like WIllby's role, it's that I don't see how it's in any way ever pro-town.

Give me something better and I'll happily jump off this "lazy bandwagon" but from where I sit there isn't shit else happening in this 31-page-long thread

[Exalt]

Choo choo motherfuckers. All aboard!

[scarlet]

so I don't really see a reason for your role to exist unless you were scum.

Could just be chaff to block up the wildcard(s).
This is such a lazy fucking wagon. The only people on it who have actually said willby is scummy because of how he's played are Exalt, and he refuses to even elaborate.
Kassius, who I'm assuming is town, says he 'justified it before' but never did or at least never told us where.

Does anyone actually have a reason for voting willby that they can describe which is more than just "I don't like his roleclaim"?. I don't like his roleclaim because he's not far from vanilla and shouldn't be claiming, and the actions he did take are objectively usually bad for town. If I do lynch him though, it's unlikely to be over something as flimsy as that.

Is his roleclaim any worse than this?

you really trying to out me that bad huh? i'm not ready to reveal my role for scum to potentially target me.... it, it's not quite as op as last game, and you're the one who's useless. always hoping on my dick literally every game when you yourself have contributed nothing for this game, terrible shark wish you would just quit the internet in the kindest way you no shipping, no game talent pubber. fyi, I have no kill action.

No? So find a better reason.

---

WillBy
What about having two votes on you early D2 made you so worried that you felt the need to claim to clear them, which was different to and so much worse than having 4 votes on you D1?

[WillBy]

Yes I think you're scum. I don't really see a use for you if you were town, so I don't really see a reason for your role to exist unless you were scum.

So it's just the role? I can work with that. I realize you all havent thought about my role as its uses as much as I have, but truly try to think about how OP destroying votes can be in the hands of scum. There were 15 players originally, 13 now. Based on paul flipping cult, I'd estimate we have 4 scum left. So 9 town (non mafia), 4 scum. Let's mislynch today, because we have no new information besides that jessup was jailed. And then mafia gets a kill off because they wont be targeting jessup again. Were at 7-4, but mafia willby has used his role to steal a townie vote. 6-4, and unless town is more or less united, they are toast.

If you factor in that mafia could have gotten another kill N1 from not shooting into protection or paul (and paul still suicides into scum), town is at 5-4 and this game is pretty much over at D3. Its not balanced is what I'm saying. This role is not a scum role. I cant see any vote manipulation role be allowed for scum team, but who knows, I dont use those roles in the first place because I feel like they too easily confirm someone town.

[m_leonhard]

Let me get this straight.

My role is useless and doesnt benefit town, but I should have waited to make sure I targeted scum. by this same logic a roleblocker should abstain N1 because they could block cop or something. Is that how you would play roleblocker?

and then you make an argument about not wanting to hit a townie with it. Of course this argument could be made for lynching D1 as well, but we all agreed that lynching someone day 1 is a good move as it provides information about players perspective. Except just losing a vote for D2 is a lot less impactful than lynching a power role.

Finally, what would I save my second shot for? The odds of me surviving to lylo twice are pretty low, especially when I claim to be abstaining from something every night.

Now here's a bit I think is interesting. You think that this could be a useful cult or scum role, but that it's definitely not town. Could you elaborate? Scum and cult are far more dependent on their ability to control votes. Why would scum use a role that gets rid of one of their votes? Moreover, what kind of bullshit would it be if scum could kill someone AND remove a townie vote the same phase? This would let scum bypass the last phase for an instant win. I dont see how this can be a balanced scum role, as it can function as a second kill in crucial moments.

I think you just explained how it balances itself out. Scum and cult are dependent on their ability to control votes. So, this is a vote depressing mechanism. That said, as with the name of the character: it's a gamble. 50/50 either scum gets a second kill in a crucial moment, OR loses a vote in a critical moment. It's a gamble to be used in a high stakes situation.

[WillBy]

I agree with scarlet, Willby's claim is useless and doesn't benefit town in any way. Assuming that Willby is fully telling the truth about his role...his actions make no sense if he were town.

First, if he only gets to use his vote blocking power twice, why blow it N1 why not wait until later in the game when we have more theories on who might be scum. Sure it's not the most useful role, but at least you have the potential to block a scum vote.

Second, why on earth would you use it on some random person N1? Your odds of hitting town at this stage are just as good, if not higher than hitting scum. Idk what PF's role is, but if PF is town and you successfully blocked....then we'd be out a town vote this turn.

Finally, even if this is all true, why the hell would it be claimed now? If you do have the power to block a future scum vote, why not just keep that quiet and attempt to use it against scum on a later round?

I don't know if this is a cult role, or a scum role, but it's not town.

VOTE WILLBY

Let me get this straight.

My role is useless and doesnt benefit town, but I should have waited to make sure I targeted scum. by this same logic a roleblocker should abstain N1 because they could block cop or something. Is that how you would play roleblocker?

and then you make an argument about not wanting to hit a townie with it. Of course this argument could be made for lynching D1 as well, but we all agreed that lynching someone day 1 is a good move as it provides information about players perspective. Except just losing a vote for D2 is a lot less impactful than lynching a power role.

Finally, what would I save my second shot for? The odds of me surviving to lylo twice are pretty low, especially when I claim to be abstaining from something every night.

Now here's a bit I think is interesting. You think that this could be a useful cult or scum role, but that it's definitely not town. Could you elaborate? Scum and cult are far more dependent on their ability to control votes. Why would scum use a role that gets rid of one of their votes? Moreover, what kind of bullshit would it be if scum could kill someone AND remove a townie vote the same phase? This would let scum bypass the last phase for an instant win. I dont see how this can be a balanced scum role, as it can function as a second kill in crucial moments.

[Vehicle]

Do you think I'm scum, or that my role has negative effects for town? Because roleblocker has negative effects for town. Or is it something to do with my interactions with kassius? Cause that guy hasnt given town anything less flavor-blasted than what youd expect from Elzars spice weasel.

you listed 2 half reasons and are treating it like a whole.

Yes I think you're scum. I don't really see a use for you if you were town, so I don't really see a reason for your role to exist unless you were scum.

[m_leonhard]

scarlet m_leonhard

Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room.

Mein Fuehrer! I CAN WALK!

[m_leonhard]

I agree with scarlet, Willby's claim is useless and doesn't benefit town in any way. Assuming that Willby is fully telling the truth about his role...his actions make no sense if he were town.

First, if he only gets to use his vote blocking power twice, why blow it N1 why not wait until later in the game when we have more theories on who might be scum. Sure it's not the most useful role, but at least you have the potential to block a scum vote.

Second, why on earth would you use it on some random person N1? Your odds of hitting town at this stage are just as good, if not higher than hitting scum. Idk what PF's role is, but if PF is town and you successfully blocked....then we'd be out a town vote this turn.

Finally, even if this is all true, why the hell would it be claimed now? If you do have the power to block a future scum vote, why not just keep that quiet and attempt to use it against scum on a later round?

I don't know if this is a cult role, or a scum role, but it's not town.

VOTE WILLBY

[WillBy]

WillBy but, to reuse the similie, that's like claiming vanilla unprovoked on D2. Congrats, you've successfully eliminated yourself from the pool of people scum are shooting into when aiming for powerroles. How does this benefit town? Why not just not act?

I'm not convinced there are true vanillas this game. Instead we have relatively useless roles like mine. Additionally, it's a bit better than vanilla because it is, to a degree, verifiable. Finally, I wasnt exactly unprovoked, I had 100% of votes (2) at that point, nearly a third through the (expected) phase length. I thought we could put a stop to this nonsense early on, but apparently it just made it worse.