Cloakers Ruining TW. Not "Balance"

[Tibro]

i for one have had enough of this thread.. can we get it moved to useless crap please?

also can someone tell Molle not to resurect many weeks old threads. just as this pathetic topic was dying away, here it is again.

please, someone put a stop to it..

thanks

[Tone]

Tell you what, Tone. You can take away the stealth and cloak ability of the Weasel. People are still going to bitch about something. A few examples: "The Weasel's size makes it too hard to hit." "The Warbird is a newbie ship!" "Terrier bursts always kill now, that's lame." "The new Lancaster settings suck, put them back!" Whatever you're trying to accomplish, your childish whining isn't going to get it done. I suggest you rethink your position on things.

no i told you dozens of times that this is entirely seperate and different that all other factors, if a cloaker was hard to hit because of size, that doesnt do what it being invisible, if the warbird is a newbe ship, that doesnt have to do with x being invisible, if bursts are lame that doesnt have to do with x being invisible. the X so so seperate and so far removed from those things that this reply is BS. those things you can see and you play against those things and they dont ruin the game by constantly inturrupting your play

[Troll King]

Again, you're making the same mistake. You're saying that it ruins the game but we're saying that it's part of the game itself. The game isn't being ruined, only your own perception of what the game should be is ruined. It cannot possibly be interrupting the game because it is in fact part of the game itself. What is happening is that it is interrupting how you play the game, but that means that the flaw is not in the game design but in how you yourself are playing it.

You are approaching this entire issue by starting with the initial idea that cloaking is a flaw, and you get killed by cloakers while playing the game, and therefore the game is flawed. The logic should actually run in the opposite direction, that is: the game is designed in a certain way, getting killed by cloakers is part of the game, hence cloakers are part of the design.

The flaw is that you are starting with yourself as the focal point and then looking at how the game affects you. What we are saying is that the game itself is the focal point and the next step in the logic is to see how you fit into the game.

[Kontrolz]

Ok, I know I have the perfect post for this thread:


THE END

[Tone]

Again, you're making the same mistake. You're saying that it ruins the game but we're saying that it's part of the game itself. The game isn't being ruined, only your own perception of what the game should be is ruined. It cannot possibly be interrupting the game because it is in fact part of the game itself. What is happening is that it is interrupting how you play the game, but that means that the flaw is not in the game design but in how you yourself are playing it.

You are approaching this entire issue by starting with the initial idea that cloaking is a flaw, and you get killed by cloakers while playing the game, and therefore the game is flawed. The logic should actually run in the opposite direction, that is: the game is designed in a certain way, getting killed by cloakers is part of the game, hence cloakers are part of the design.

The flaw is that you are starting with yourself as the focal point and then looking at how the game affects you. What we are saying is that the game itself is the focal point and the next step in the logic is to see how you fit into the game.

the vast majority of players never visit this forum. set aside the 5 or 6 frequent responders for a minute. if you had 100 players try out trenchwars without invisible ships hitting them, and then ask them if it was more fun to play, almost all of them would answer yes. not all, but a good portion of the FEW no's would be cloakers themselves. id put money on that

ok, kontrolz, THE END

[Spikester]

correct me if im wrong but arent cloakers mostly used in public? No one cares about pub! It's sometimes fun to lame someone in public and see him type endless amount of "ez" and "newbie" after that. CLoaks arent the problem at all.

[SpiderMage]

the vast majority of players never visit this forum. set aside the 5 or 6 frequent responders for a minute. if you had 100 players try out trenchwars without invisible ships hitting them, and then ask them if it was more fun to play, almost all of them would answer yes. not all, but a good portion of the FEW no's would be cloakers themselves. id put money on that

ok, kontrolz, THE END

The vast majority of players are also immature, stupid lil assholes who spam "newbie, ez, luck, laggot, lamed, spawned, etc" after EVERYTIME they die.

Apparently you've learned nothing of the human race. Most of the time, the majority is inheritly stupid.

Give it up already.

[Darkmoor]

correct me if im wrong but arent cloakers mostly used in public? No one cares about pub! It's sometimes fun to lame someone in public and see him type endless amount of "ez" and "newbie" after that. CLoaks arent the problem at all.

You might not care about it. But they're extremely important to get new people into this game. But as said, the cloakers aren't the problem here.

[Sarien]

Speaking as a person that's posted a couple times in this thread, if Tone finally gave up and actually wrote "The End"; Why Oh Why would you keep on at him and encourage and give him more things to write about? I mean, come on. When the annoying guy at the party finally shuts up, you don't go "But I think you're wrong.."

[AcidBomber]

Mods, move this to Useless Crap please. <_<

[Troll King]

the vast majority of players never visit this forum. set aside the 5 or 6 frequent responders for a minute. if you had 100 players try out trenchwars without invisible ships hitting them, and then ask them if it was more fun to play, almost all of them would answer yes. not all, but a good portion of the FEW no's would be cloakers themselves. id put money on that

ok, kontrolz, THE END

When did I say anything that has to do with the "vast majority of players"? If anything, the "vast majority of players" also hold the same self-centred point of view as if the zone owes it to them not to have any cloakers. The game is bigger than the way that you're looking at it. This comment does absolutely nothing to actually address the point I was making.


The vast majority of people who play Monopoly probably don't like how rolling doubles three consecutive times lands them in jail, but that doesn't mean that they should start mailing in Milton Bradley for them to change that rule. Something happens that you don't like but is part of the game? Just play on!

[Pressure Drop]

Perhaps tone isn't the best person for a campaign to reduce the X's power.

But i do think that they are overpowered.

I normaly try and pub in the first pure pub but it is often full. i was in the second pure pub as 1st was full (the pure pub that allows private freqs) and it was completely dominated by X's. there was freq 1 and 0 with 7 ppl in each and an independent freq of 6 x's and one terr so they had as many ppl as each team. They completely ruined what would have otherwise been a competitive game (the terr sat on roof and the x's would pick of the 2 freqs trying to get flag room and where busy fighting each other). That isn't an isolated incident either as that pub nearly always has a band of at least 3 x's constantly laming by camping and using their multifire.

Most of the ppl who go "use a ship with x-radar" don't even pub that much and saying a good terr should be able to kill x's is also stupid. There are alot more factors. x's aren't that easy to kill in terr if you don't have a portal and dont suicide (specialy since there recharge is far to quick with equimpent off so they can fire another multi soon after you dodged the first one), if you run from them and let your team like javs etc kill them you can run into a enemy burst/jav bomb easily. Also it is rarely one X its normaly several.

Also forcing the entire team to change and hunt x's is bad for pub becuase while they are doing that they aren't trying to get flag and then it leads to the spawning wb's and entire teams on roof etc.

The the extra speed there bullets have now multi fire l3 bullets make X's far to strong. I'd be most in favour of taking there multi away and if not that then take the speed out of there bullets like b4.

[Troll King]

I agree that the weasel is slightly overpowered, but the feature of the weasel that tone is complaining about is its cloaking ability and I don't see that as a problem with the ship. Even if you make any changes to address the concerns you mentioned, he'd still find fault because they can still cloak.

[Tone]

When did I say anything that has to do with the "vast majority of players"? If anything, the "vast majority of players" also hold the same self-centred point of view as if the zone owes it to them not to have any cloakers. The game is bigger than the way that you're looking at it. This comment does absolutely nothing to actually address the point I was making.


The vast majority of people who play Monopoly probably don't like how rolling doubles three consecutive times lands them in jail, but that doesn't mean that they should start mailing in Milton Bradley for them to change that rule. Something happens that you don't like but is part of the game? Just play on!

Do you want the game to be more or less fun for everyone? remember its a game and what the purpose of a game is

ok this time its REALLY THE END

[Troll King]

Do you want the game to be more or less fun for everyone? remember its a game and what the purpose of a game is

ok this time its REALLY THE END

You'd have to define "purpose". Your perception of "purpose" is different from the zone's perception of "purpose". That's what I've been trying to explain to you. You might feel that cloakers are a problem that affects your purpose, but I'm saying that they fit into the game's purpose and that's what will or will not determine if settings need changing.