Mafia: What a time to be alive!

[the_paul]

A small error say if u really are cop and ur pick to investigate: u say u picked someone making an effort to be active, but then right after immediately say "that left a few people...(undercut included)" so what u say here is contradictory u wanted to find someone active to examine and undercut wasn't initially one of them, according to u

Read the rest of that sentence. I wanted to pick someone making an effort to be active enough to not receive a moderator warning. Fis just warned Missa because Missa has been so inactive, which could have led to a lynch if we didn't have all this stuff going on. To phrase it differently, I wanted to investigate someone who seemed to making an effort to be active to the literal bare minimum to hide and fly under the radar.

Sadly enough, the list of people who I would have investigated because they were super active would been just you and Exalt, that's how difficult its been to get people to talk.

[the_paul]

Sorry for the 900 posts in a row, my wife called me and I forgot to address my greed, and editing is illegal and scummy. I was greedy because I wanted to have a chance to investigate someone who had a legitimate chance of being lynched the following day. I've said it before, I'm not used to playing games as small as this, so I felt some pressure to be useful quickly. I also didn't want to have to rely on another investigative role, so I had the mindset I was the only cop. In a perfect world, I would have investigated Undercut, he would have remained inactive, I could have gotten attention on him and gotten him lynched without role claiming, and I could have had at least one of the sanity options eliminated. Probably one of the plans on forums that has gone the most off the rails in history, not one part of that went well for me lol. Oh well, it sounded good to me at the time.

I'm going to head out again for awhile, Fis said the phase will end tomorrow afternoon/evening (in the USA), so I don't need to post 600 times in a row and clog everything up again, but I'll try to periodically check in tonight, maybe while I watch the Nuggets win

[ixt]

A small error say if u really are cop and ur pick to investigate: u say u picked someone making an effort to be active, but then right after immediately say "that left a few people...(undercut included)" so what u say here is contradictory u wanted to find someone active to examine and undercut wasn't initially one of them, according to u

[the_paul]

Claiming you had an "unsuccessful" night action is the easiest scum cop out imaginable since you don't have to actually try to come up with anything. My vote stands

Why did you pick undercut to use your supposed action on? Or is that just what you want us to believe? Trying to distance yourself from scum buddy and take any heat off him for when you inevitably flip scum??

This is actually a good question, thank God it didn't come from Exalt. Undercut was a little bit of a crap shoot, but there was some reasoning behind it. You and ixt are mostly to blame. You survived a hurtling bandwagon day 1, which everyone agrees is basically a shot in the dark. That was a borderline miracle, so if you survived that, you probably weren't going to get lynched day 2. Ixt survived one of the most ill advised and obscure role claims I've ever seen, and he also did it on day 1. If that didn't get him lynched, nothing would. So while an investigation on you or ixt is probably what most people would have done, I did not go that route because I was greedy, but we'll get to that. Exalt would be another pretty obvious investigation, especially since he and I had gone at it so much, right? Wrong, again because of greed. There was a 0% chance that Exalt was going to get lynched today, unless something crazy unexpected happened. Funny enough, Willby was also a consideration. I've known Willby for a long, long time, and he's a really intelligent guy. Too intelligent, in my opinion, to be sitting on the sidelines following what Exalt said. Completely irrelevant, but it would have been a little funny if he and I investigated each other.

Anyway, I wanted to pick someone who seemed to be making an effort to be active enough to not get a moderator warning, but that was it. That left a couple people like Missa, midoent, voth, Biet, undercut, and maybe 1 or 2 more. Midoent I know lives in Australia, so having to catch up and only be active when everyone else is asleep is probably difficult. I don't know who missa is. I remember voth from in game stuff years ago, but don't really know him. Never heard of Biet before. But I actually remember Undercut, so thats why I picked him from that list.

It doesn't matter now, but there was actually thought put into it, so thats why I picked Undercut.

[the_paul]

Current standings:
the_paul (willby, ixt, zeebu, voth, ixt, exalt, rodney, field, biet, the_paul) <- yes, ixt actually voted the_paul twice (here and here)
voth (undercut)
no votes (missa, midoent)

With these standings (9 in favor) it is almost certain the_paul will be lynched today, even with the no voters picking voth it takes 2 switches to force a tie. Are we all sheep who follow willby's first vote like he said we are? we also have two people not showing up at all, and undercut voting for voth, whats up with that?

I had another look at all that's happened since soild's death. And the two things that stand out the most are definitely the role claims of willby and the_paul. After some thought, and I must have totally missed zeebu's post about this earlier when I posted my vote, it indeed seems very unlikely for willby to be an inventor. Since it was confirmed there was also a town doctor in play, and most likely a RB and cop (which tp claimed), wouldn't it be a bit too heavy on the roles? claiming inventor is also about the only role I can imagine that could not easily be refuted since it's a bit of everything. it just suits so many different scenarios.

the_paul must be feeling the weight of all the votes against him to role claim about halfway through the day. willby claims paul is guilty, paul claims he is the town cop. let go into some scenarios here:

what would it mean to lose the town cop at this point? for willby it would mean he is either an insane inventor (is that even a thing?), paul was switched by the busdriver, or willby is not what he says he is at all. losing the cop would also mean losing our ability to investigate as well as protecting.

it's likely that paul is just using the claim as an effort to confuse, but we have to at least consider the consequences.

to clearify, I'm not trying to protect paul in any way and I still think he is scum, but after playing cop last game (my first game) I know what value it has for town to win and we can't afford to lose him this early on.

Even if I am saved today (not going to happen), I have 0 results to find out my sanity level, and I have publicly come out as a cop, which means any mafia with a pulse will never allow me to get a night action through again. This was not a smart post.

[the_paul]

Paul, you could give a last-words scum list. That could help town in the future.

I'm getting there buddy, let me work my way up. In fact, I've already given my list, but I'll re-post it and make my case 1 more time before I die. Maybe, this is exhausting, no wonder why people who missed most of day 1 didn't bother reading back and becoming active

[the_paul]

Let me point out exactly what the_paul just tried doing here, knowing that he's caught scum. He is fake claiming cop in hopes of the real cop counter-claims, thus two important town PRs are outted for one already-screwed mafia player. It's exactly what I said what I'd do earlier in the game if I was caught scum, so it's a strategy that's right up my alley. Paul, I have to admit, you speak to my scummy heart when you try to pull off moves like this, but it won't work this time. I can't fault you for trying it, but you made a few notable mistakes:

1. You waited way too long to fake claim, so it was way too obvious that you've been talking strategy with your scum team trying to figure out what to do. You should've taken initiative immediately after the WillBy claim and disputed his result tooth and nail. Taking the amount of time you did to post a response is alone enough to incriminate you, not even factoring all the other anti-town things you've done this game.

2. You tried to role fish immediately before the WillBy claim, asking if the result was a Mafia kill or a Vigi kill. Town would naturally assume scum kill there, so I'm not sure why you asked about it, but if anyone actually answered your question, they would either have essentially just roleclaimed Vigilante, because scum aren't going to tell you they killed someone. You asking that question was 100% of a scum mindset.

3. Claiming you were roleblocked is fine in a vacuum, but any other town PR that was possibly roleblocked would easily know you are lying and thus will never leave your wagon. In that case, you mine as well have claimed a guilty result on someone to spice things up, because you'd be getting at least one townie on your wagon permanently no matter what you said.

4. You basically dug your own grave with the Day 1 No Lynch, and you may have dug the graves of your teammates doing that as well based on who you protected by doing so, whose wagon you avoided being on to avoid suspicion Day 1 (since you knew they'd flip town), and who joined with you in forcing that NL. We'll see what happens I suppose, but that NL might have bit you all in the ass.

Jesus Exalt, I was trying to get away from just you and me talking, but you keep raising legitimate points I have to answer. I'm sure everybody else in this thread is thrilled at this.

Let me start with the bolded part since it doesn't have a number attached to it, and I'm going to bold my answer for clarity. I have never asked for anyone to roleclaim. If this is in reference to me saying that I was roleblocked and it could be theoretically confirmed, then I apologize for the confusion. I was roleblocked, the role blocker knows I am telling the truth, the role blocker would be committing suicide by confirming this. I am dead to rights, any other town cops will be committing suicide by claiming. Do not role claim. I just told you guys what happened, and I guess it's frustration derived wishful thinking on my part. I mean, you have to be able to understand the frustration more than anyone else in this game Exalt. I was useless Night 1, I was called out by Willby before his results even came in (I need to double check the timing but I think this is accurate), and I have had any chance of being useful taken from me because for the rest of the game I am either 1. dead today, or 2. roleblocked for the rest of the game. On top of this, I've spent half of the game arguing with you, and the other half begging for activity, only to end up being killed by a claim that can only be proven by me dying! I've tried to force activity out of people to at least be useful, and now the only way I can be useful is to die. It's annoyingly ironic.

1. I'm the opposite of most people, I work for the government so my weekends are pretty free apart from social obligations. Yesterday I had an easy day because it was just set up for today, and today I coordinated testing on a $27 million project, which led to one of the few days where I was essentially inaccessible. Again, this doesn't matter, but it's another area of frustration on top of what I posted above, that all of this would come up on one of the very few days that I can't be accessible for a majority of the day.

2. I'm not sure how that came across as fishing for roles, it was an honest attempt to start dialogue. Maybe I'm giving other players in this game too much credit to assume that, upon seeing a question about a vigi, they wouldn't get offended and speak up saying that they tried to make a kill, it wasn't their fault! I was looking for theories on what people thought, that's all. When I was more active, mafia games here were generally themed and the writing made it pretty clear who did the kill without explicitly saying it. A lot of times Mafia kills were stereotypical brutal ones like you'd see in the Godfather, serial killer kills were usually even more brutal and kind of weird, like something from the movie Se7en or something like that. Yes, I assume the hit was from the Mafia because they have the advantage, I just wanted to address the elephant in the room that there was only 1 kill and generate more dialogue as to why. It's been like pulling teeth to get participation, and this seemed like a pretty easy way to drum up conversation. Maybe that was a mistake, I don't know, I just don't see it that way.

3. You are correct, I could have claimed guilty and seen what happened. But that would be a lie, I would know it and the roleblocker would know it. Less of a risk since theres a 50:50 chance any roleblocker is mafia anyway. But then whats my play afterwards, hope that the mafia just forgets to roleblock me? Seems unlikely. Plus it would be a chance that, by doing this, we would have had 2 roleclaims and a dead townie, which would end the game. You can still win the game when I get lynched, we can't win the game if this scenario played out this way, and I'd still probably end up dead.

4. Yeah I still think you're looking at this entirely the wrong way, and it's not worth beating the dead horse again. You presented reasons for believing ixt, and thats fine. A couple people reasoned voting for ixt because a day 1 role claim and call for investigation is a bad look, that makes sense. Theres another 8ish people who didnt give any reasons for what they did at all and just hid on the wagon. I at least told you long before any wagons formed what I would do, but we've been through this.

Jesus, on to the next post.

[Exalt]

Paul, you could give a last-words scum list. That could help town in the future.

[the_paul]

If town really does have a Vigilante as the_paul tried fishing for, then you won't be living through the night, so there's little risk involved unless that player is roleblocked and/or you are bulletproof.

I'm not fishing for who the vigi is. There's definitely a vigi, this game doesn't have a theme and is fairly vanilla. We have 2 oddball role claims, whatever the hell ixt ended up claiming, and Willby claiming an inventor that can use his own inventions, which is pretty irregular. I would be shocked if there isn't a pro town killing role. I'm not asking for the vigi to come out and say "LOL yeah I targeted so and so but it didn't work, my bad!". I was more looking to see what other people thought about why it happened, but I'm being constantly accused of fishing for roles despite the fact I've gone to great lengths to ask that nobody else role claim. Shit, I have a 50/50 chance of having a chance to defend myself if the roleblocker would confirm I was targeted, but this would be the absolute stupidest, most suicidal option available to that player. It would be a guaranteed loss for town, but I can still think about what if in my dying hours!

[the_paul]

Let us not forget BIET, you were not around Day 1 at all, did not vote for either of the two wagons (thus helping cause the no lynch), you defend Paul now due to contradictory statements such as claiming he's scum while also saying you don't believe WillBy, and yet you also give zero ideas as to what town should do if they did hypothetically leave Paul alive to screw us over even longer. Care to explain what plan of action you'd have town take, since you want Paul to be kept alive?

Let's play a game of hypothetical bazarro world though and say Paul really is Town Cop. He said he was roleblocked already Night 1, so what makes you think he would suddenly not be roleblocked every night he is kept alive from now on? Besides that, what would you have us do with WillBy then? Are you saying that instead of absolutely finding scum one way or the other, you'd rather lynch neither of them? Sounds familiar, because that's what you did Day 1 too.

Do you plan on lynching scum at any point in this game? Again, if Paul was kept alive, who would you be voting for, and what would you have any other Town PRs do from now on? What would Paul claiming 'I've been roleblocked' every new day phase do for the town exactly? A claimed Town Cop is no longer valuable when scum can just roleblock him in perpetuity, so what value does he give town now? The only other option he'd have is to claim a fake guilty on someone, because it would be ridiculous for any Mafia Roleblocker to ever not roleblock him from now until gameover if he really was Town Cop. So, what would you be doing to help town by keeping Paul alive? What should town be doing with WillBy then?

If not Paul, and not Rodney, and not ixt, and not WillBy, who should we lynch? You?

This is the correct question. I've been flushed out and had to role claim, and I am 100% useless from this point forward.Of course, I could have ended up being naive or paranoid or whatever and been useless anyway, but no mafia would let me get any results now that I've had to publicly claim.

I'm going to try to answer a few of the questions and comments directed towards me, even though it's useless at this point. I don't know why I started with the most recent but I'll see what else has come up.

[Exalt]

Let us not forget BIET, you were not around Day 1 at all, did not vote for either of the two wagons (thus helping cause the no lynch), you defend Paul now due to contradictory statements such as claiming he's scum while also saying you don't believe WillBy, and yet you also give zero ideas as to what town should do if they did hypothetically leave Paul alive to screw us over even longer. Care to explain what plan of action you'd have town take, since you want Paul to be kept alive?

Let's play a game of hypothetical bazarro world though and say Paul really is Town Cop. He said he was roleblocked already Night 1, so what makes you think he would suddenly not be roleblocked every night he is kept alive from now on? Besides that, what would you have us do with WillBy then? Are you saying that instead of absolutely finding scum one way or the other, you'd rather lynch neither of them? Sounds familiar, because that's what you did Day 1 too.

Do you plan on lynching scum at any point in this game? Again, if Paul was kept alive, who would you be voting for, and what would you have any other Town PRs do from now on? What would Paul claiming 'I've been roleblocked' every new day phase do for the town exactly? A claimed Town Cop is no longer valuable when scum can just roleblock him in perpetuity, so what value does he give town now? The only other option he'd have is to claim a fake guilty on someone, because it would be ridiculous for any Mafia Roleblocker to ever not roleblock him from now until gameover if he really was Town Cop. So, what would you be doing to help town by keeping Paul alive? What should town be doing with WillBy then?

If not Paul, and not Rodney, and not ixt, and not WillBy, who should we lynch? You?

[Exalt]

Current standings:
the_paul (willby, ixt, zeebu, voth, ixt, exalt, rodney, field, biet, the_paul) <- yes, ixt actually voted the_paul twice (here and here)
voth (undercut)
no votes (missa, midoent)

With these standings (9 in favor) it is almost certain the_paul will be lynched today, even with the no voters picking voth it takes 2 switches to force a tie. Are we all sheep who follow willby's first vote like he said we are? we also have two people not showing up at all, and undercut voting for voth, whats up with that?

I had another look at all that's happened since soild's death. And the two things that stand out the most are definitely the role claims of willby and the_paul. After some thought, and I must have totally missed zeebu's post about this earlier when I posted my vote, it indeed seems very unlikely for willby to be an inventor. Since it was confirmed there was also a town doctor in play, and most likely a RB and cop (which tp claimed), wouldn't it be a bit too heavy on the roles? claiming inventor is also about the only role I can imagine that could not easily be refuted since it's a bit of everything. it just suits so many different scenarios.

the_paul must be feeling the weight of all the votes against him to role claim about halfway through the day. willby claims paul is guilty, paul claims he is the town cop. let go into some scenarios here:

what would it mean to lose the town cop at this point? for willby it would mean he is either an insane inventor (is that even a thing?), paul was switched by the busdriver, or willby is not what he says he is at all. losing the cop would also mean losing our ability to investigate as well as protecting.

it's likely that paul is just using the claim as an effort to confuse, but we have to at least consider the consequences.

to clearify, I'm not trying to protect paul in any way and I still think he is scum, but after playing cop last game (my first game) I know what value it has for town to win and we can't afford to lose him this early on.

It seems like this is exactly what you're doing.

You doubt WillBy's claim, yet you also claim Paul is scum in the same post? Are you claiming that WillBy is Paul's scum buddy and got him lynched on purpose with the first vote of Day 2 and a full, unforced claim to back it up? If WillBy is lying, he's fucked, plain and simple, and there's literally zero reason for him to have done what he did as scum. He could've helped push Paul the normal way without drawing an ounce of suspicion his way, yet he full-claimed and gave a guilty result within the first part of Day 2 for no reason at all? Also, you think there is a busdriver in the game, yet you also say WillBy wouldn't be an inventor, because there are too many roles with a Cop (claimed by probable scum, not by town), a Doctor, and a possible Town RB (again, eluded to by probable scum) in the game? Are you serious right now? You contradict yourself with each sentence in your defense of Paul.

I think you are either scum buddies or you really haven't thought this through.

[Exalt]

Saying I "distanced" myself from rodney implies that you previously thought we were close. What gave you that impression?
I've voted for him and wanted to lynch him on d1. I would've attempted to lynch him today, too, if WillBy didn't come forward with some information. That is what "my suspicions carry over to d2" means.

Voth going after you is a bit telling to me actually. I see you as one of the highest townies on my list, mostly because you seem to be seeing things happen in this game the same way I have, and it seems to me like Voth is buckling under the pressure a bit. It feels like he's playing tighter than Day 1, and it almost comes off as him being strained. I can't describe it well, but I can see it in what he's been posting. Is it because his scum team is falling apart at the seams? Anyway, Voth has been more and more suspicious as Day 2 has gone on, not to mention his vote switch to Undercut at deadline. Even ignoring that as possibly being a silly mistake (I suppose it's possible), him going after me being possible scum for VSing Paul prior to WIllBy's claim (defending a scum buddy?), him talking about you 'distancing' yourself from Rodney (even though you voted Rodney and he forced a NL rather than do so), and him trying to tie random people together (Paul and me, Rodney and you, etc) seems awfully suspect considering he never seemed to care about pressuring or voting Rodney or Paul at any point previously. Why does he think Rodney is scum now, when he refused to vote him on Day 1, and why is he saying you are distancing when you were on the Rodney wagon? It isn't logical really. If anyone is tied to Rodney, it would be those who didn't vote for him Day 1, right?

Since I've already posted the real juice for the day, I'll just post some small berries based on what everyone is saying.

You all are playing a followers game. I notice this happens a lot when there's either some extra vocal players or early results like I've had, but the amount of trust being extended to players like Exalt and myself is worrisome for 3 reasons. Before I talk about that, I'll preface this with everything I've posted about tp is true.

The first problem with a follower game is that I could be lying. While paul hasn't yet posted his counter, a lot of people seemed to bite with the belief that if I'm wrong about paul, then you seek justice for him by lynching me. However, I could come up with plenty of excuses for why this investigation was wrong (busdriver) and maybe buy myself another day. It's dangerous because if I was lying, scum would get a free +2 margin. Assuming a 13 player 9-4 game, 3 free mafia kills makes it 6-4 and the game is 1 mislynch away (6-3 after lynch, 5-3 a night later). Ixt questioned it in the scummiest way possible, but at least he made me explain.

If town really does have a Vigilante as the_paul tried fishing for, then you won't be living through the night, so there's little risk involved unless that player is roleblocked and/or you are bulletproof.

[BIET]

Of course I post just after fis' update, great..

[BIET]

Current standings:
the_paul (willby, ixt, zeebu, voth, ixt, exalt, rodney, field, biet, the_paul) <- yes, ixt actually voted the_paul twice (here and here)
voth (undercut)
no votes (missa, midoent)

With these standings (9 in favor) it is almost certain the_paul will be lynched today, even with the no voters picking voth it takes 2 switches to force a tie. Are we all sheep who follow willby's first vote like he said we are? we also have two people not showing up at all, and undercut voting for voth, whats up with that?

I had another look at all that's happened since soild's death. And the two things that stand out the most are definitely the role claims of willby and the_paul. After some thought, and I must have totally missed zeebu's post about this earlier when I posted my vote, it indeed seems very unlikely for willby to be an inventor. Since it was confirmed there was also a town doctor in play, and most likely a RB and cop (which tp claimed), wouldn't it be a bit too heavy on the roles? claiming inventor is also about the only role I can imagine that could not easily be refuted since it's a bit of everything. it just suits so many different scenarios.

the_paul must be feeling the weight of all the votes against him to role claim about halfway through the day. willby claims paul is guilty, paul claims he is the town cop. let go into some scenarios here:

what would it mean to lose the town cop at this point? for willby it would mean he is either an insane inventor (is that even a thing?), paul was switched by the busdriver, or willby is not what he says he is at all. losing the cop would also mean losing our ability to investigate as well as protecting.

it's likely that paul is just using the claim as an effort to confuse, but we have to at least consider the consequences.

to clearify, I'm not trying to protect paul in any way and I still think he is scum, but after playing cop last game (my first game) I know what value it has for town to win and we can't afford to lose him this early on.