Mafia: What a time to be alive!

[the_paul]

I voted for ixt because I was confused as to why Voth seemed to want to jump ship at the last second to avoid lynching him. It was fairly obvious I was going to vote that way because like i did in fact say in my posts, the bandwagon on rodney seemed to form out of nowhere and I didn't understand it. I wanted to see if Voth would stick to his guns and avoid lynching ixt while hoping that a train formed on me for holding off on voting until the end of the phase. I wasn't trying to avoid a lynch I just thought that ixt was a way better option than rodney was.

Vote: Voth

I still just don't understand what he was trying to accomplish by swapping off ixt and on to me at the last second. It seems incredibly fishy to me, and he was obviously trying to avoid being tied to something that was about to happen.

Progress! And an excellent point about Voth that I completely missed. Now we?re cooking. Looking forward to the other explanations

[ixt]

well then sorry if i made a similar mistake to last time. and for the rec my vote is by no means fixed if someone (most notably those who havent said much) seems very shady for sure my vote will be slapped on them

[Undercut]

I voted for ixt because I was confused as to why Voth seemed to want to jump ship at the last second to avoid lynching him. It was fairly obvious I was going to vote that way because like i did in fact say in my posts, the bandwagon on rodney seemed to form out of nowhere and I didn't understand it. I wanted to see if Voth would stick to his guns and avoid lynching ixt while hoping that a train formed on me for holding off on voting until the end of the phase. I wasn't trying to avoid a lynch I just thought that ixt was a way better option than rodney was.

Vote: Voth

I still just don't understand what he was trying to accomplish by swapping off ixt and on to me at the last second. It seems incredibly fishy to me, and he was obviously trying to avoid being tied to something that was about to happen.

[the_paul]

By the way, I understand that you called out the lurkers. It's partway through day 2 phase, and you're one of the first to do so, explicitly, by name. Yet I already have 2 votes on me, and nobody cares to hear justification or theories from the others, they're just waiting for more votes on me. And nobody is noticing any of this until now.

U say I have the more important mafia role, then why am I asking myself to be a main focus?

I'm not going to go into this too much, but I'm assuming that by this you mean you asked to be investigated day 1 after you role claimed? It is not a 100% fact, but I think even Exalt would agree that calling for a town power role to expose themselves and investigate you day 1 is a gigantic red flag. You say you're new to this, so it could just be a rookie mistake where it sounds good in theory, but is usually a catastrophe in practice. Regardless of the motive, if this is what you mean then you are not making the point that you think you are.

[the_paul]

If i was scum on the verge of being lynched why on earth would i paint a target on my back with a night kill like that?



Reading your posts thats exactly what youre doing, talking in circles. There is no substance in any of it, you two are just bickering and twisting each others words back and forth not contributing a damn thing besides bringing up the same conversation that distracted town from pursuing a lynch last phase. You are both guilty of this. Is that your play here paul? Are you trying to distract town? I love how this attack on exalt comes right after the day phase is over and votes cant be changed. Why did you wait until the night phase to start pushing on him? Because you knew you'd be safe?

On a side note i need to start seeing these lurkers speak up with some actual content. We've posted our lists and kept conversation moving, wheres yours? Missa? Biet? Zeebu? Midoent

You're right, Exalt and I did end up talking in circles. Apart from ixt's day 1 roleclaiming contributions, Exalt and I have been far and away the most active participants. As a result of being suspicious of each other, it turned into finger pointing at each other. Since hardly anyone is presenting anything, it is easy to become a whirlwind of finger pointing.

I waited until night phase for a couple of reasons. First of all, I actually expected day phase to last about an hour or 2 longer than it did. I was kind of surprised when it ended, and I was expecting somebody to wait it out and switch right before the phase ended just to force a lynch. And after his stance beforehand, I expected that person to be Exalt. I also didn't want to give anyone an out. Waiting till the phase was over meant that everyone acted the way they saw fit without pressure one way or another. Besides, I'm still of the opinion that a lot can be learned from day 1 without a necessary lynch.

I'm not trying to distract town, for the most part I think I've done the opposite. I haven't made any wild leaps, and I haven't tried to drop a roleclaim to leverage anything. I have used a lot of exact quotes from people, and presented theories that I think fit the quotations. That doesn't mean I'm 100% right, and that doesn't mean everyone has to agree with how I see the pieces fit. I use the quotations to show how I got to where I'm thinking with no chance for a misinterpretation.

That's what is so frustrating for me this round. If you don't agree with the conclusions I've drawn, tell me why. What part of the quotations that I've painstakingly put together don't fit what I've said? You don't trust me? Good, you shouldn't trust anybody yet, because nobody has earned it. Tell me why you're voting for me. Give me a solid reason, quote something where I said something suspect, do something. Right now votes are on me because I pursued a no-lynch scenario. I was very upfront about this, and I followed through. Why is my vote suspicious, but Voth and Biet have largely flown under the radar? Why is me doing what I said somehow more suspicious than people doing the opposite of what they said they would do? Exalt stuck his neck out to save ixt, that is irrefutable. You can take his reasoning or not, that's your choice, but he gave a reason for his vote. Zeebu, field, and soilderz (RIP) did not give much of a reason for why they voted for you at the time, and certainly have not defended why they didn't switch votes to pursue a lynch. What made them trust ixt? Why did they suspect you so much on day 1? What made them so sure, with the majority of people saying no lynching is a mistake, that you were scum and ixt was innocent?

On the flipside, what made Willby, Missa, Undercut, and Midoent vote for ixt over you? What in particular made them stick to their guns despite the impending no lynch decision? And more importantly, why does nobody care to hear these answers?

There was a setting on the old forums where you could see how many times people had posted in each thread, but I'm having trouble finding it and I'm not willing to go back through 6 pages again, sorry. But I would be looking for contributions from Willby. He was fairly active in the usually useless early phase of day 1, but then he disappeared in the wake of hurricane ixt. His next appearance of substance came right after night phase, and only came after I seriously questioned Exalt. Why is this? Also, why would questioning Exalt automatically make me a suspect? If you think Exalt has proven anything to anyone, then you've never played Mafia before. His reasoning for voting for me was that I was accusing Exalt, but that I hadn't made any definitive scum list. Well, neither had he. And since the early phases on day 1, only a handful of people had. What makes my actions different? What had I done to set myself apart from everybody else who hadn't lynched any scum (12 other players), and those who hadn't made a serious, thought out scum list (conservatively 6 other players, probably more)? I called Exalt out, that was the only difference, and the suspicion didn't come until after the fact. And again, nobody cares.

I can't even remember a post from Undercut that had any reasoning in it, and certainly one hasn't come recently, and nobody cares. What has Missa and midoent added to the conversation? Nobody. Cares.

Why?

[the_paul]

vote the paul while I'm waiting for those less active to post like biet, missa. U say I have the more important mafia role, then why am I asking myself to be a main focus? Read it however ud like but noticeably ur list is primarily those players (excluding myself) who have posted (or have attempted) material worth analyzing. And sorry I missed the reason why u stuck voth in there, could repeat if u want. If it's cuz a NL, excuse me but u did the same thing regardless of what u say. Actions speak louder than words.

I did the same thing, but my 2nd post (first was expressing surprise that the game started) laid out exactly what I was going to do. And I did it. Exalt laid out exactly why he believed what I did was wrong and scummy, and that he was going to do the opposite. He didn't. My vote was inconsequential, I think I voted for midoent or something, rather than being on either your wagon or Rodney's. There were 2 other people with inconsequential votes, and nobody is paying any attention to them, despite that being one of the main "reasons" that Exalt suspects me. If that is a criteria for suspicion, why have Voth and Biet not received the same scrutiny? I don't find the fact that Voth went for a no lynch suspicious, I find the vocal people, namely you and Exalt, treating my vote that I called out ahead of time differently than Voth or Biet's, who have yet to give an explanation for why they went that route. Biet said he was inactive so maybe that was his reasoning though, I'm not 100% on that.

[ixt]

vote the paul while I'm waiting for those less active to post like biet, missa. U say I have the more important mafia role, then why am I asking myself to be a main focus? Read it however ud like but noticeably ur list is primarily those players (excluding myself) who have posted (or have attempted) material worth analyzing. And sorry I missed the reason why u stuck voth in there, could repeat if u want. If it's cuz a NL, excuse me but u did the same thing regardless of what u say. Actions speak louder than words.

[Voth]

Wow, that is a huge loss for Town. I have to get my kid to bed soon and then help my wife with something for work, but I will post detailed thoughts either later tonight or tomorrow.

[RoDNeY]

If I had my way, Rodney would be dead right now, but with Soilderz gone, I'm pretty sure that's an impossible lynch at this point. If he is scum, his buddies won't allow it, and with one less townie around who did actually vote for him, a Day 2 lynch going through is pretty much SOL. It's also pretty much a waste of time. I hope someone else has something worthwhile to vote on, because I tried to get you all to lynch Rodney, and half of you said no. Thing is, nearly everyone in the game has said I look town to them, and Soilderz is now proven town, so that's at least two townies on the wagon I pushed for, You guys saved Rodney and one of his voters died for it, so I hope the townies among you guys know what you're doing.

If i was scum on the verge of being lynched why on earth would i paint a target on my back with a night kill like that?

You're playing well and I'm enjoying the banter Exalt, my point was that you and I can go in circles all night without learning anything

Reading your posts thats exactly what youre doing, talking in circles. There is no substance in any of it, you two are just bickering and twisting each others words back and forth not contributing a damn thing besides bringing up the same conversation that distracted town from pursuing a lynch last phase. You are both guilty of this. Is that your play here paul? Are you trying to distract town? I love how this attack on exalt comes right after the day phase is over and votes cant be changed. Why did you wait until the night phase to start pushing on him? Because you knew you'd be safe?

On a side note i need to start seeing these lurkers speak up with some actual content. We've posted our lists and kept conversation moving, wheres yours? Missa? Biet? Zeebu? Midoent?

[the_paul]

Wait a minute, I'm accused of defending Rodney now? If saying you don't have any evidence is defending Rodney, then I guess I am guilty of that. Meanwhile, you have very clearly implied that you have extra information about ixt, there is a quote from you a couple of posts above if you need a refresher. After you had this conversation with ixt, you went out of your way to defend him, but try to deflect that by pointing more fingers at me? On top of that, Willby has contributed literally nothing of any sort of substance whatsoever until now. What prompted his new found activity? I posted calling you out. His reasoning for voting me? I haven't definitively outed anyone as scum. On day 2. A fact shared by the other 12 players. What makes me different than the other 12 players is that I am the only one who has made any case against Exalt.

So since Exalt loves numbers, lets try this one again and see if he ignores math for a 2nd time. 13 players means ~3/4 mafia members. Ixt has a wagon forming on him. Exalt sticks his neck out for Ixt, and wavers on the reasoning behind it, but succeeds in derailing it. Despite considering a no-lynch a "scum move", and despite saying it is worth it to lynch a town role to gain information, he does not follow through and saves someone who blindly "role claimed" to him on Day 1.

I post calling Exalt and ixt out again, and Willby comes out of left field by voting for me, citing the fact that I hadn't definitively nailed any scum. Neither has anyone else Willby, what makes me different? Why don't the 3 of you try to come up with an explanation as to why you're so gung ho on defending each other?

In addition, 2 other people placed inconsequential votes, and neither of you have said a word about Voth or BIET. I wonder why that is? So in a game of 3-4 anti town members we have a group of 3 who are defending each other in the face of actual quotes that can cast doubt, and are trying to scapegoat me for not having nailed anyone yet, and for not having lynched anyone. When I get lynched today, or inevitably get killed at night tonight, here is the list of names that you all wanted so badly: Exalt, Willby, ixt, BIET, Voth. One of them is probably guilty of being circumstantially involved, but 3 of them have done nothing but defend each other and deflect attention off each other, and BIET and voth have been completely ignored despite meeting their "criterea" for voting me.

Vote IXT

Exalt only stuck his neck out when ixt got thrown into the fire, and Willby only finally spoke up and said something because Exalt was being looked at. This leads me to believe that ixt has the more impactful mafia role in comparison to willby and exalt.

Remember what I said about patterns right before the phase changed, when I started questioning Exalt? That didn't take long.

[Exalt]

Ok, I get what you're saying here and I even addressed it my post, where I said I believe there's more to the ixt conversation than you've told us, and that I don't expect you to reveal everything. At this point it's very clear that you know ixt's exact (alleged) role, as he used you as a lifeline. Ok, fine. Amateur move to roleclaim day 1, both in public and in private, but believable.



So which one is it? You either have more information on ixt, or you don't. Just like you're either going to push for a lynch, or you're not. Also, your reasoning for being town is that Soilderz "seemed to trust" you, and since he's town you obviously are too? You're too good a player to believe that this is any kind of evidence, but I can't let anyone read that without realizing how disingenuous it is. It's interesting that, despite having posted probably the most out of anyone in the game, you've been very careful to be non commital on everything. Say you're going to lynch, don't do it. Say you have information on ixt that he revealed in private, then say you really don't and you told us everything. I don't know if that makes you definitively scum, but it certainly makes you unreliable at best. It'll be interesting to see if we get information from any power roles today.

To everyone else, pay close attention to how the voting goes from here. I'm going to start looking at how the 2 wagons formed day 1, and maybe we'll see a pattern with people other than Exalt. Hopefully I have time to finish it before I have to leave.

First of all, why are you asking me ' which one is it' when I've stated multiple times now that I do not have inside information about ixt. My read on him is based on intuition and experience, along with how the game has gone. I never once said I had inside information, nor did I ever imply it. You must have read into it that way, but you'd be wrong to do so. Either this shows you are bad at reading between the lines, because you only seem to look when there's nothing there to see (and dont look when there is), or you are purposely misinterpreting what ive said to misrepresent me in a negative light.

As for 'saying I'm going to lynch,' I tried. I tried pretty damn extensively to get Rodney lynched. In fact, I would quicklynch Rodney right this very second if I could, and if he flipped town, I'd accept the heat for it without any hesitation. Rodney is being protected by scum, and possibly you are one of them.

Your lame claim that I didnt lynch someone (as if the lynch was my decision alone) and that I am non-committal is an absolute joke, and it's beyond hypocritical. You didn't vote at all, didnt scum hunt at all, didn't post a scum list at all, didn't do absolutely anything to help town in any way, yet you call me non-committal for hard-pushing a lynch that was ever so clearly denied by some of scummiest players in the game.

From what I can tell, Rodney was and is being protected by scum. As for you, you've purposely hurt town and continue to do so, you protected Rodney through the NL, protected him through defending him directly (which I quoted before and can do so again), protected him by attacking ixt and pushing others to vote there instead, and now protect him via chainsaw defense through proxy of attacking me and my motivations using misrepresentation of the facts. If Rodney flips scum, you are next, just so you know.

[WillBy]

So I don't have as much time as I thought, so I won't attempt to dissect the whole slew of night phase posts, but I'm going to throw my vote around a little bit, hopefully get some people talking. While I still think Ixt is a good lynch, I'm currently going to focus my efforts on one of my good friends.

Vote the_paul

Paul has been talking quite a bit, but mostly trying to defend his no-lynch platform. Personally, I don't think there needs to be a defense. I've seen games go both ways with day-1 lynches, and while I agree with Exalt that a day 1 lynch is normally better for town, I don't think no-lynching is inherently a scum move.
What Pauly D hasn't been doing is effectively hunting scum OR giving us reason to to think he isn't. So until we hear a role claim, I encourage others to join my vote.

[the_paul]

I think your analysis is fair, but only based on the information you currently know. The shade you're throwing on me with this is technically justified based on that information, but I'm hoping it will eventually be proven to be hasty judgement based on false assumptions.

Ok, I get what you're saying here and I even addressed it my post, where I said I believe there's more to the ixt conversation than you've told us, and that I don't expect you to reveal everything. At this point it's very clear that you know ixt's exact (alleged) role, as he used you as a lifeline. Ok, fine. Amateur move to roleclaim day 1, both in public and in private, but believable.

Just to make things 100% crystal clear, I do not have inside information on ixt. I posted the summary of what was said in-game, nearly word for word on my part. I didn't see any reason to hide it

So which one is it? You either have more information on ixt, or you don't. Just like you're either going to push for a lynch, or you're not. Also, your reasoning for being town is that Soilderz "seemed to trust" you, and since he's town you obviously are too? You're too good a player to believe that this is any kind of evidence, but I can't let anyone read that without realizing how disingenuous it is. It's interesting that, despite having posted probably the most out of anyone in the game, you've been very careful to be non commital on everything. Say you're going to lynch, don't do it. Say you have information on ixt that he revealed in private, then say you really don't and you told us everything. I don't know if that makes you definitively scum, but it certainly makes you unreliable at best. It'll be interesting to see if we get information from any power roles today.

To everyone else, pay close attention to how the voting goes from here. I'm going to start looking at how the 2 wagons formed day 1, and maybe we'll see a pattern with people other than Exalt. Hopefully I have time to finish it before I have to leave.

[Exalt]

If I had my way, Rodney would be dead right now, but with Soilderz gone, I'm pretty sure that's an impossible lynch at this point. If he is scum, his buddies won't allow it, and with one less townie around who did actually vote for him, a Day 2 lynch going through is pretty much SOL. It's also pretty much a waste of time. I hope someone else has something worthwhile to vote on, because I tried to get you all to lynch Rodney, and half of you said no. Thing is, nearly everyone in the game has said I look town to them, and Soilderz is now proven town, so that's at least two townies on the wagon I pushed for, You guys saved Rodney and one of his voters died for it, so I hope the townies among you guys know what you're doing.

[Zeebu]

Like I said earlier, a no lynch isnt preferred because we dont learn nearly as much. my vote for rodney was certainly an early rvs vote that ended up riding through the phase since i was afk the entire time. that being said he developed into a candidate that gave off mild scum vibes when he jumps on the willby wagon immediately. then a long post and votes ixt. a couple posts later he gives out what i would consider good advice. He then basically calls me out which is fair since i voted in rvs and left for a while. overall im not getting a huge scum vibe from him.

thats my read on rodney for right now, got busy today but want to do something like this for everyone as soon as i can

i wanted to do one right now for ixt to understand the rodney vs ixt day 1 tie, but its going to take a while since his posts are a gigantic ball of paranoid confusion. i am going to have to go through his posts with a beer in hand.